Do women really understand guys as much as they think?

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This whole "nice guy" issue has always affected me. I've been called a "nice guy" by many people throughout my life, and while I used to take pride in that, now I tend to see it as a backhanded compliment. It's not that I don't want to be a good person, or that I want to be a blantant A-hole, but I have come to realize that I need to control my urges to smother people (particularly girls) with compliments, sympathy, and whatnot, and that I need to be more open and, dare I say, blunt. (I know that most aspies have no problem being blunt, but I do.) Of course, a lot of the time I genuinely have the urge to, not because of any alterior motive, but because it's honestly what I'm thinking. But, since girls will jump to conclusions based on such behavior, I realize that I have to compliment in moderation.

And it's intersting that people are saying how "nice guys" are seen by girls as just trying to get in someone pants. I've had people say that about me, saying that I give off a "creepy" vibe and whatnot. Before I was thinking that it had more to do with my poor eye contact, odd gestures, stims, and other odd aspie traits, as well as my shyness. But maybe the problem is that I'm just too damn nice for my own good? I don't know.

In any case, I'm hoping I'll eventually meet a girl who has a basic understanding and appreciation of how I think and act. My answer to the original question is that, as others on here have said, nobody can ever fully understand another person regardless of gender or any other factors. But I still have my hopes up that there will be someone who can see through all of my oddities.

I asked what that "it" is!

I was trying unsuccesfully to be funny. I think by having "it" the guy means knowing how to behave around woman to be seen as attractive to them. Some people have an energy that makes them exciting and interesting to be around. As traditionally males take the lead and it's men who are generally doing the pushing that means it generally has to be us that has that energy to be seen as someone who is attractive.

Have you guys ever been to http://www.heartlessbitches.com? Especially the parts that examine his site that examine what women tend to truly think of "nice guys"? Namely, that they view them as fauning creeps and losers with ulterior motives. This is a caricature.

When I read this of course, I concluded that if this is how the majority of women feel, then I want nothing whatsoever to do with them. I think it would be worthwhile for every guy struggling with relationship problems to knock every woman in the planet off that pedistal he places them on. When you eliminate that many, you might find someone truly worthy of your attention. If I were still a virgin, I'd write to heartlessbitches and say:

"Dear Heartless b*****s,

f**k you. I would rather die a virgin than sleep with every one of you. Eat s**t and die.

Thagomizer"

And that, I think, is liberating.

Or better yet stop being so damned bitter.

Christ, it's thinking like this which leads to patriarchal societies with arranged marriages.

Go to Saudi Arabia if you think women need to be put in reeducation camps.

It's her life, and she'll reject you if she wants. You can't disagree with her values, only her reasoning. If she reasons that you're the most boring, uninspiring, unsexy man she's ever met, who's to blame her?

Oh, but you're <i>nice</i>. Well woop de doo!

Or better yet stop being so damned bitter.

Christ, it's thinking like this which leads to patriarchal societies with arranged marriages.

Go to Saudi Arabia if you think women need to be put in reeducation camps.

It's her life, and she'll reject you if she wants. You can't disagree with her values, only her reasoning. If she reasons that you're the most boring, uninspiring, unsexy man she's ever met, who's to blame her?

Oh, but you're <i>nice</i>. Well woop de doo!

Isn't kinda funny though how boring, uninspiring, and unsexy are all such subjective things though? Out of all the guys I know who are stuck in that both I really can't say that any of those really apply all the time and I've also noticed there's more than enough boring guys who don't have personality that do great - difference is their orientation to reality is just real emotional and 'in the box' so to speak. I've got a friend who's definitely not boring, definitely isn't lacking in social skills, I think the only problem is he's the kind of guy who's into anime, into medieval roleplaying type stuff, etc. and he makes em laugh all day (not to get anywhere aside from probably just have a good time and see that they do) and he was talking tonight about how he's gotten constant "I'd date you if" compliments for the last 10 years that he's been single - he's not a complainer usually (other than today when another friend of ours whined about going a month without), he's definitely not a douche about it. Its getting proven to me all the time now more and more that exitement, sexiness, and inspiration don't do it as much as whether your more rational or more emotive in how you make your choices day in and day out. If women are claiming thats what's wrong with the average nice guy though I'd have to correct em on that and say it's the strawman niceguy. Most nice guys or even worse, nice analytical guys, know how to cover it, just talk in snippets, and try to be in the moment - might look more bold and spined-up to geek out and talk about stuff that no one wants to hear but you can see where that just isn't and never is appropriate.

That said though, I still can't blame most guys in that spot for being mad - yeah, society claims they don't have the right but that's more or less in terms of the right to blame rather than the right to feel a little jaded. No one single woman owes it to em, that's true, but its really odd when aknowledgement is cut off for guys who just don't vibe or have the personalities that are particularly in season right now.

Heartless b***h is really offering a counter-arguement that, like I think we all agree, has nothing to do with it other than put women at ease with their conscience over the separation between their biological attraction and immediate psyche (the kind of reassurance they'd want) and it sends guys who'd even identify with that or be afraid that their judgement made it true scuddling into a corner - great way to crush so-called wimps even further and make sure they stay the hell out of the gene pool.
They may not realize it but I think the eugenics of human nature are what make this topic and the dialogue over it seem so sharply sadomasochistic, thats another fun thing to toss in with it along with logical vs. emotional primary thinking.

There's nothing wrong with ONE woman rejecting me. That's life. But there's something wrong if ALL women reject me. Women certain have the right to choose who they want, but we men also have the right to be chosen. Anarkhos, it sounds like you favour women having greater rights than men, which is not healthy.

I don't understand why "nice guys" give women such a negative "vibe" (whatever the hell that is). I'm not looking for the sexual encounters they don't want. It's the crummy guys women want that have those things in mind.

Bullcrap!

You have no right to be chosen, period!

Rights come from self-ownership. I have a right to associate with whomever I choose, and everyone also has that right.



You are very confused...and BITTER!

If a woman were complaining that nobody chose her, I would say the exact same thing. That doesn't mean I favor men having greater rights than women--as you can see the rights are EQUAL!

I have news for you: it isn't negative.

Women may say it is when asked, but then they lie. However, this isn't anything unique concerning women, all NTs lie, and they do it all the time.

Next week on 'Deconstructing NT' we'll discuss the meaning of "no."

Your argument is quite contradictory. If I have the right to associate with whomever I choose, then I have the right to be with whatever girl I choose. Girls should recognize my right. I do, however, also believe that all humans have the basic right to be liked by others, whether romantically or otherwise. It is a part of our survival.



You are very confused...and BITTER!

If a woman were complaining that nobody chose her, I would say the exact same thing. That doesn't mean I favor men having greater rights than women--as you can see the rights are EQUAL![/quote]

You're darn right I'm bitter. Women keep telling me how great I am, but if I'm so great, what's stopping them? Maybe I need to ask them the tough questions. Tough guys ask those questions.

I wouldn't want to be with a guy who I did not also consider a friend. I do not like a--h---s as friends. I can see CONFIDENCE or jokes, but honestly, the second biggest turn off for me would be the idea of being with someone who held absolutely no respect for me. ((The first being any kind of substance abuse))

I think the distinction that needs to be made is you don't have to go all on one end or all on the other. No, women are not attracted to doormats in my experience; you should repsect others but also yourselves. But the girls that I know seem basically attracted to guys (as far as persoalirty goes, let's not talk plastic surgery, you look the way you look) guys who seems in general fun to be around and who make them feel good, basically. You dont have to grovel to make a chick feel good or want to be around you; however it's not fun to be around someone with no self-respect either, I guess. ((I don't know how my friends put up with me. ))

Why women STAY WITH "bad guys" is another matter entirely- they wind up feeling trapped. And I think in general, the lower the girls' opinion of herslef, the more likely she'll wind up with a guy who treats her badly- she won't know better. ((Can you tell this is a depressing topic for me? The fact that I have seen this happen, by the way, does not invalidate my opinion, any moe than watching someone nearly die of snakebite would make my warning you that snakes can be dangerous less valid.))

But yeah. find a happy medium. and I won't say "Wait for someone who likes you for who you are"... unless you're looking for more than sex. if you just want sex, it doesn't matter, thougyh it would be courteous to make sure both of you know that no relationship is desired.

I just lost some brain cells there.

Ok.

1. You do not have the 'right" to be liked, you have the right to be treated civilly. I agree people should not TREAT you badly but you have to EARN the liking of others!! ! let's compromise and say people shouln't make assumptions about you on sight or decide to DISlike you before you give them enough information to go on.

2. Girls don't have the right to be with any guy they choose, guys don't have the roght to be with any girl they choose. Both people have to want it.

You have to stop thinking humanistic and start thinking animalistic - when you get to that point you'll see why it works the way it does. Not to degrade em but when it comes to things that deal with our genes and such, sexual attraction is really tends to be more controlled by that side a lot of times (for men or women), at least IMO. Like Serissa just mentioned, there are definitely other factors as to why women stay with men who beat em but at the same time the natural skew of attraction seems to bend that way regardless.

You obviously have no clue what freedom of association means. Freedom of association does not mean the power to subjugate others to do your bidding.

Let's try to put this in ridiculously simple terms, seeming you can't grasp this simple concept:

Gender A has a right to reject gender B. Gender B has a right to reject gender A.

Now, is this unfair to gender A or gender B?