Learn to be social before trying to be in a relationship

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Oh this thread was directed at the aspie men?

I wrote it in relation to both men and women.

Ideally, Spokane_Girl's example would apply to Aspies of BOTH genders... but I guess old, obsolete gender roles die hard...

It's easy to be social, and this is coming from someone who totally sucks at socialising.

I say such because when given the means of communicating on an equal footing (the 'net for example), we can play as well as "NTs". It's just that people don't like meeting halfway, and written word just doesn't captivate your typical human.

For example, what "normal" person would like to only communicate via typing, and interact in person like an animal? Not many.

You can't learn social skills in person if you're an adult with an ASD, no matter how well you can talk or superficially charm someone [via rote-memory], as you'll never know how to speak nonverbal language, and that people, is what captivates people.

I think you can to some small extent at least, there's books out on body language that you can read. After practice I can pick up some basic body language, like when people fold their arms across their body they're feeling defensive (although it could also mean they're cold), and when people are relaxed generally their posture is open with open palms, stretched out legs, and that sort of thing, and when people mirror your seating position they're feeling comfortable around you/are focused in on you, and when people smile-most of the time it means they're feeling warmly towards you.

There's about a million or so small subtleties, and each one means its own thing; not to mention that most communication is actually nonverbal in origin. You simply can't focus on this much, as well as trying your best to reciprocate appropriate social interaction.

The small stuff, like a smile or frown, yeah, but there's many, many types of meaning to these very basic expressions.

When you hear of people who have a partner with an ASD and they say they aren't giving them enough emotional stimuli, this above is what they actually mean, but they just don't know exactly what it is. You can say the exact same thing with a monotonous voice and no facial expression, as someone who does these nonverbal things appropriately, and there's a world apart over which one a normal person would prefer.

That's a rather sexist statement, trivializing the experience of another person on the basis of their gender.

sunshower: That is a tough concept to face, and decide how you want to approach it - there is no "right" answer, only that the result will be different with each permutation. My personal experience is that I find more joy and greater opportunity to connect with people when I accept my weaknesses and seek to develop my strengths - not ignoring my weaknesses, mind you, but acknowledging there are some limitations - as opposed to seeking to achieve something akin what I imagine others experience and attain. I've found too many times that my impressions of what I observed were often quite different than their realities.

The first thing I thought of when I saw your ladder was a sort of helix where the rungs are not always horizontal; there are many places where one moves up and down before making progress. For example, after making multiple friends, one might then choose to explore deepening a friendship over seeking a relationship to gain understanding. But again, I think you provided a really keen observation as to your own process, and one that (at least to this reader) made a great deal of sense.


M.

Thanks

I like the helix interpretation. I guess I'm not so much of an extreme visual thinker, so my diagrams tend to be fairly simple.

I know this is off-topic, but I'd love to hear one of your music compositions. You've said before that you write chorale music? Is it possible to purchase your music, because I run chorales on and off (am teaching one at the moment for a college competition, but we've already chosen our music for that).

Sunshower,
You're right about table manners and such. Some of the basics are conscious rules. You can get them from Mom or a book. Not only do NTs learn them more easily, they tend believe their importance more readily. It's hard to get an Aspie kid to care about such silliness until he's older and motivated.

Yes, it will get you there eventually, but for the subtle, grown up stuff, it's slow and it's a completely different process. And the NTs can't tell you what they do because they don't know. If you ask what you're doing wrong, they'll probably make something up and believe it.

Then you are the perfect one to ask. Does it not allow you to relax and interact without all the stupid, chest-pounding competition?

It's all good. You're right, I didn't mean to trash a helpful attempt to get something started.


About the sequences, I figured something out when I was somewhere past 30: I am backward.
Most people, when they meet someone new, want to know things in this order:
Do you like me?
Do I like you?
Do you respect me?
Do I respect you?

When I meet someone new, my questions are in this order:
Do I respect you?
Do you respect me?
Do I like you?
Do you like me?

By the time I care about whether the person likes me, he's long since given up and moved on. (Please forgive the oversimplification. I hope you get the idea.) Knowing this makes it easier to see where some of my troubles were.


Also, think back about math and other academics. We take a lot of things out of order.
And baby talk -- the crap people think is so easy? Incoherent gibberish.
Standardized developmental sequences do not apply to us, if they apply to anyone at all.

You're contrasting choir to sports right? In that, I'd say definitely. But I'd HIGHLY recommend choir at any rate, for anyone (it happens to be my longest running special interest hahaha), I'm currently involved in 3 choirs (one church, one uni, one college), a band, teaching a singing student, and doing a university chorale conducting course. I'm running the college choir for the second year in a row (which is awesome fun!), and I've also started and run my own small acapella group at school. I've been in choirs since I was 4.

Anyway, blah blah blah about my obsession beside, I'm not sure choir is less competitive than other activities (probably more, in fact, unless it's church choir - cause everyone is competing for the solos, the choirs are involved in choir competitions, etc etc), but choir is generally very accepting of diverse people. And also the experience of making vocal music is unforgettable and addictive.

Wow. I wasn't even thinking of all that stuff. I was just thinking of the raging hormones in a mixed gender group, especially with younger people of the same age, and the need to show off in the presence of the opposite sex. Everything is a lie when they start that nonsense, and it's hard to figure out what's going on.

Sorry, once I start talking about choir it's like all sense has gone out of my brain and the obsession takes over.

But it's somehow true ,please try to be less 'politically correct' than that before saying such accusations, Space didn't say any blasphemy or sexist statement . Shyness and social awkwardness is a more critical weakness in guys sice the guy is the party who's obliged to approach the girl and not the way around. That doesn't mean that social awkwardness doesn't make it hard for aspie girls since one needs social skills to maintain a relation but social skills is more critical for guys when it comes to getting a date.

in other term, Spokane can't compare herself to aspie guys but only to other aspie girls in that very specific matter.

A disability of any kind SHOULD NOT prevent someone from doing something that they would love to do. Aspies that want to develop friendships and relationships with their peers just need to start somewhere. You should try participating in activities that require social interaction such as dancing (I'm learning tango, salsa and cha-cha!). Once you meet someone for the first time, learn about their occupation, favorite shows, and activities, and talk about current events before and after lessons.

I think the ladder seems to be very helpful when trying to develop more social skills and start a relationship with any woman. The level that I'm in is "Become an equal member of a friendship group". The biggest challenge is "trying to follow a conversation when you're in a larger friendship group". Such a challenge will worsen only if you're in a noisier environment. But I'm still working on this.

Giving up, being miserable, and consider yourself a loser will make you a loser.

How would someone develop a personality? That seems important.

True, guys and girls are different. I think leprosy would have made a better analogy than AIDS, though. People with AIDS can get laid, that's why AIDS is so common.

What if being in a room with more than 10 people that you don't know (or knowing nobody in the room) freaks you out?