where have all the 18-30 ladies gone?

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I am still trying to figure out who I am, but I am very close to knowing now.

But it still wasn't good enough for one person I was interested in. She expected a guy to be able to "direct and support himself", which I was trying to do, but she was still trying to find herself. Since she wouldn't do a long-distance relationship (to her, anything more than 10 miles was too far--she lived 100 miles away, but I could have visited her every weekend until I graduated, after which I could have moved to where she was), and she had narrowed her job search down, a possible relationship hinged 100% on where she lived. She said that a relationship would be possible if she moved to City X, but not if she moved to City Y.

But until a decision was made, she wouldn't be ready for a relationship with anybody. So I waited until she was close to making a decision. Because I decided to wait a while, she accused me of letting myself be affected by my actions. How could I not be affected if she was putting conditions on a potential relationship? If I decided to date someone else, she wouldn't have dated me because she would never date someone who was already in a relationship.

Tim, you did all you could do. You tried to figure out what she wanted (and it sounds like you did a pretty good job of it, too) and it didn't work out. That's not your fault. That's her fault. I've told you before that girls are stupid, and I'm sure you already know that. It's probably hard for you to put all these relationship things behind you because it's obvious that you value relationships (you know, or I could be totally wrong... but I don't think I am). Placing a lot of value on relationships is a very good thing, and still desiring to be in a relationship is also a good thing (particularly when you've been screwed over so many times). It means your heart is in the right place. It means you can forgive. But to be honest to yourself and to anyone you might get into a relationship with, you need to mentally move on. That doesn't mean forget, that doesn't mean don't talk about it-- but don't let it consume you. That's really, really hard (I say as I obsess over things in my mind). But look ahead. You have a lot going for you.

OK, that was among the crummier motivational speeches I've given in a while. A little crummy, but honest. If you were any closer, I'd do what I usually do to cheer people up, which involves rum and Coke and a Bible.

I'm 19 and Catholic. So yeah, we exist

I think you're misunderstanding me. Feeling something for someone is different than dedicating your life to them. My boyfriend and I are very affectionate, and I'm more than happy to let him express it to me, just as I'm pleased to do the same with him. I'm hopelessly romantic in a lot of ways and so is he. Where it becomes too much for me is when he's neglecting his life in any way for me, compromising too much, or when being with me disrupts his well-being or has the potential to interfere with his future. An extreme example is when he tells me he wants to be with me for the rest of our lives through anything, I caution him that if I ever became negative or abusive for a substantial amount of time that he has to leave an concentrate on himself, even if he realizes that I only need help and that something in me has changed for reasons potentially beyond my control, maybe by brain trauma or something else. In fact, I made him promise he would get me help and get a lot of distance to keep himself healthy. I told him I'd do the same.

There are times when I feel like he's overbearing with his affections, and I will back off because of it. Too much closeness worries me, and I don't want a codependent situation. I want to make sure I don't become dependent on him emotionally, either, because if something did happen I would fall very hard without him. There needs to be distance and a lot of autonomy for me to feel comfortable now, and that means giving each other tons of space to grow and learn on our own journeys, separate from each other. As conterintuitive as it sounds, it takes being apart and individual to be together, truly.

Hypothetically, from what I can tell on here, if I were to consider a relationship with you (and you have a lot of attractive traits, believe it or not), you would probably back me off with such devotion. I know how frustrating that sounds, but there are a lot of good reasons for that behaviour. My best guy friend is very codependent and it totally turned me off to him, both because he has never truly learned himself as a result, but also because it's made him resentful to those he's served over time. Codependency is a state that gives off so many negative vibes that I can't help but avoid it now. It simply doesn't allow for true, equal love.

That said, I'm totally devoted to my partner, heart and soul, as an integral part. It's just that I recognize my place, and that I can be whole by myself, too. If he ever died, I would miss him, but I would still feel whole because, when it comes down to it, I'm the most important thing I have and I recognize that.



It's not impatience driving itself, it's the loneliness driving the impatience, but you're still impatient given what you just explained. At 20/21, you have a long ways to go. Not everyone has relationships -- and sure as sh!t not stable ones -- at 20/21. There's a reason drinking age in the States is 21. You're still young, inexperienced, and maturing.

With statements like "knowing that I will never be able to experience that," I see all the ingredients of a negative mindset creating a self fulfilling prophecy; by saying you'll never experience those things, you've written your own story already. Close the cover, check the binding, sign your prologue--but you're the author, whether it feels that way or not. When I was first involved with my boyfriend, a guy who I had dreamt of without realizing he existed for two years, I was afraid of losing him. That fear, built up from years of previous loss and resultant negativity, escalated into my believing, truly, that he would go away. It got to the point where I pushed him away, violently. It wasn't until he left and broke off our relationship completely that I realized what the hell I was doing. By believing he could never be with me, I caused it to happen. This is just one example.

I'm hoping it doesn't take such extremes for you to learn the lessons I have. Sometimes it takes falling hard a few times before we realize we're the ones decidedly jumping off from those heights when no one else is pushing us from them.

Having distance to be your own person is one thing, and in my previous relationship, that wasn't an issue... the only times we really had to be together were when we were both at the church (or talking online)... I had my own busy schedule, and she had hers...

But how do you keep her around when you're not terribly attractive? With all your talk about codependence, there are times that I feel like that's the only way I could hold on to a woman... I'm willing to let go if that's what she wants (as I did in my previous relationship), but the problem arises in that I would have to either find a codependent that wouldn't leave me at the drop of a hat in favor of something better (and there are a lot of "something better"s out there), or completely remove a woman from society at large and lock her in my basement (which is unacceptable for obvious reasons that I shouldn't have to discuss)...


No, I don't. I'm fat, boring, and socially ret*d... not a good combination...

If I'm so young, then why do I feel so old? I feel like I've experienced all that life has to offer, and have been found lacking. Yes, I do feel like my story has been written in its entirety... I had my chance, and failed at it (and I don't see anyone lining up to give me another chance either)...

I won't dispute "fat". You're the one with a scale. I won't dispute "socially ret*d" although I will dispute the wording. That sounds like an overly harsh and self-cruel way of saying you have the social difficulties that would be part of why you got an Aspergers diagnosis in the first place. I will dispute "boring". You are fascinating to talk to. I've had many interesting post exchanges with you and so have others. But it has all been typed rather than spoken. Maybe your interesting personality and ideas are harder to see in real life because of the social difficulties that don't manifest at a keyboard.

I don't know why you feel so old, maybe its all relative to your self, your own experiences. You are old compared to how you used to be;) But you aren't old compared to me, and you are very wrong that your story has been written, that you had your chance, and must have failed. I've noticed a lot of Aspies who give up very quickly, and I guess its part of not being able to see view B from spot A, but you should let go of that. You ARE young, and you CAN change things. You WILL change things, if only you are willing to try.

Tim, I need to be blunt. You have, actually, no idea what she expected or really wanted. You only know what you believed she expressed in an effort to define certain thoughts and feelings. You could have heard her wrong, and she could have chosen the wrong words. You need to stop reading into her actions or trying to apply lessons from them; it doesn't sound like you ever accurately understood her, so your efforts here are likely to be misplaced. What happened is simple. You hoped for a relationship that, it turns out, wasn't meant to be. Sometimes there is no reason. It just is. You'll get nowhere repeating all these lines to yourself or to us. Move on. Let go. It simply was not meant to be, and nothing else is relevant.

To answer the OP: 18-30 women are all around you, man. You just don't know how to approach them. :/

Well, thank you for saying that I'm interesting, and yes, I guess I do have a lot to say... but what I was trying to get at with boring is that I'm one who pretty much hates partying and tries to get away from it as much as possible, while most of my contemporaries seem to be party people... I'm "boring" because I'd rather stay at home than overwhelm my senses at a nightclub... if only there was a nightclub that wasn't loud with lots of strobe lights i might actually enjoy that...

Just you believing all this makes you unattractive. If I'm around a very obviously attractive guy who find himself unattractive and has issues with self hate or a lack of self acceptance, he's immediately unattractive. If you argue, either verbally or non-verbally, with a girl (like me) who compliments you for the features she finds are attractive, that you're not attractive, not only does it raise red flags that you're going to be very negative, unenjoyable and destructive to be around, but also that you've just disrespected her honest opinion of you and made it obvious that, if she were to break up with you, it would tear your already fragile ego apart even more. This is an example of actions you can help and that are single handedly destroying chances you have. It's under you control, completely.



That's the perspective you've chosen to take; defeatist and negative. It's your choice to shut the door, and no one else can open it.

Last edited by Orbyss on 23 Nov 2009, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It doesn't make you boring, it just makes you difficult to meet. After all, there aren't normally going to be 5 or 10 women you've never met coming over to watch a favorite TV show with you, regardless of if that is their favorite way of spending an evening, or not.

My husband doesn't consider himself attractive, but most women do. He isn't attractive in most classical ways, but has this amazing smile that makes me melt. I knew lots of women at his church that were crushed when he started dating me And he had no idea they were interested. I had the advantage of my sister and a few others telling him literally over a period of YEARS how much him and I seemed to have in common, and that was the hook that eventually got him to take a chance. Good thing for me that he did, eh? He still doesn't like parties or loud and crowded places, but he has got a wicked sense of humor that only those who know him well get to see, and most nights he has my family bursting out with laughter. Despite our years together he still doesn't see his own gifts as clearly as I do, but I keep working on it. He's miles more confident than he was on our first date.

But he had to wait until he almost 35 to get together with me. I guess he just wasn't ready before that, or I wasn't, or ... ? Who knows. God's plan was for us to get together later rather than earlier.

Whoa... I hadn't really thought of that. Putting myself down was the end to achieve, not putting someone else down... That said, in real life (not so much on here, but at least take me on my word on this one), I usually respond to compliments about myself with a "thank you for that, but honestly I don't think the same way", or something similar... is that still disrespecting her opinion by disagreeing with her?


Except my ego is anything but fragile. Quite the contrary, it's rather tough. Yes, I'm constantly putting myself down, but that's because I need to in order to maintain mental balance. As a child, I had a super-inflated ego that bordered on narcissism, but at the same time, one semi-critical comment would completely destroy that ego and I would get very emotional over petty things. That culminated with my first rejection 7 years ago, which left me in a deep depression for 3 years that makes the me of now look like the enzyte guy. Since then, I've been constantly putting myself down, keeping that ego from getting too large again. I have to keep attacking it to keep it strong and protect myself... I mash my own buttons until they don't work, so that nobody else gets the chance to push them. And now, nobody else out there can hurt me anymore, and that feeling of security is worth all the self-deprecation I subject myself to...

That sounds like an odd place to be at, crushing your own ego so no one else will. Over time, you should grow to a place of more natural confidence so you don't have to do that.

Honestly, if someone I was trying to date told me that story, I would conclude he hadn't finished growing into himself yet and, thus, wasn't really ready for anything serious. Which would be fine if I knew I wasn't ready (which is rarely true, since few people realize when they, themselves, aren't ready) but not fine if I thought I was out test driving for commitment.

As for who to share all that self-deprecating information with: no one. Just say "thank you" for the compliment and keep the follow up in your thoughts. Same as your feelings of superiority, when they exist, should be kept to yourself in most cases. Once in a serious relationship you get to share some of your personal and real feelings, of course, but it really isn't appropriate most other times.

TOS - Perhaps an alternate response when given a compliment would simply be: "Thank you - that's something I don't always see in myself." It acknowledges their statement without creating conflict about it, and it may have the added effect of returning the compliment by remarking on their observations... without necessarily agreeing with them. It avoids the area of judgment almost entirely. It upsets my wife when I deflect her when she compliments my appearance; from what I understand, it gives the impression that I don't value her opinion and that I don't value myself. I see it as being more objective about myself, but I respect that we see things differently and try to find ways to satisfy both of our needs. It just takes a lot of communication, accepting that we will both make mistakes, and a willingness to work through those instances for something we both want.


M.

Except I can't tell if something is natural confidence or the false overconfidence I often displayed as a kid, so I stop it dead in its tracks just to be safe...

which is another catch-22 i guess...