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Learn to be social before trying to be in a relationship

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makuranososhi
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06 Apr 2009, 11:50 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Space wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
You can get relationship without being social. Look at me, I hardly have any friends and I am going to get married in two months.

But you're a woman though, so your social inadequacy isn't like having AIDS


That's a rather sexist statement, trivializing the experience of another person on the basis of their gender.





But it's somehow true ,please try to be less 'politically correct' than that before saying such accusations, Space didn't say any blasphemy or sexist statement . Shyness and social awkwardness is a more critical weakness in guys sice the guy is the party who's obliged to approach the girl and not the way around. That doesn't mean that social awkwardness doesn't make it hard for aspie girls since one needs social skills to maintain a relation but social skills is more critical for guys when it comes to getting a date.

in other term, Spokane can't compare herself to aspie guys but only to other aspie girls in that very specific matter.


I'm sorry, LPP, but I'm not going to adjust my measure of what is sexist to accommodate your preference. Space's comment encompassed all women and was dismissive of their problems simply because of their gender; as we've all experienced, being different isn't easy, and to trivialize the experience of the female gender is pretty weak. You're making assumptions about obligations, as there are no rules... those one superimposes only serve to limit and restrict. Social skills are important for -anyone- interested in dating - I disagree that it is a gender-related issue, and have pointed that out.


M.


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06 Apr 2009, 11:59 am

*easier said than done but great topic. i guess i better do as janis said, and "try just a little bit harder" :)
now if only i can become unintrested in certain things such as fire agates to get my try on my goodness!


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Space
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06 Apr 2009, 12:25 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Space wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
You can get relationship without being social. Look at me, I hardly have any friends and I am going to get married in two months.

But you're a woman though, so your social inadequacy isn't like having AIDS


That's a rather sexist statement, trivializing the experience of another person on the basis of their gender.





But it's somehow true ,please try to be less 'politically correct' than that before saying such accusations, Space didn't say any blasphemy or sexist statement . Shyness and social awkwardness is a more critical weakness in guys sice the guy is the party who's obliged to approach the girl and not the way around. That doesn't mean that social awkwardness doesn't make it hard for aspie girls since one needs social skills to maintain a relation but social skills is more critical for guys when it comes to getting a date.

in other term, Spokane can't compare herself to aspie guys but only to other aspie girls in that very specific matter.

I agree. It's not about being sexist, it's just acknowledging a fact. Men on average look for physical beauty, followed by personality, etc. Whereas women place much higher value on social status, social poise, social skills, and looks are secondary.



MissConstrue
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06 Apr 2009, 12:55 pm

Yeah we don't have problems then why the hell do I have trouble in the area of socializing when it comes to talking to guys? :roll:

Oh wait I know....it's because I'm not a looker because that's the ONLY thing guys are after.

Speak for yourself space you aren't female but you have them all figured out...yeah. :roll:


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LePetitPrince
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06 Apr 2009, 1:07 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
Yeah we don't have problems then why the hell do I have trouble in the area of socializing when it comes to talking to guys? :roll:

Oh wait I know....it's because I'm not a looker because that's the ONLY thing guys are after.

Speak for yourself space you aren't female but you have them all figured out...yeah. :roll:


No one has denied you don' that you don't have a problem in socializing due to your asperger and no one has denied the fact that most guys look mostly for looks.

I wasn't saying that Asperger makes it harder for guys than girls , but it makes different difficulties for each gender.

My female coworker is the most shy and socially awkward person that I have ever met in my entire life, yet she had no problem in getting a bf, she's now during her 4rd relationship and she's only 23.

I am totally sure that an equivalent male not only would never maintain a relationship, but would never even be able to get a single date.



MissConstrue
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06 Apr 2009, 1:14 pm

Yeah but what I'm saying in response to space's earlier statement is that's like saying you're a female...so you wouldn't have it as hard.

I don't mind that being used in a post but if you're responding to a member who happens to be female......THEY DON'T ALL FIT THAT STEREOTYPE and it's stupid to assume that of one female. Also a very silly notion that females have no trouble in getting relationships unless they're ugly as hell.

I can understand this alpha thing and frustration as it seems that guys have to do the asking. Not sure if that's a cultural thing or not. But to assume that women just lay back and wait for their knight in shining armor is unrealistic for some of us.


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LePetitPrince
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06 Apr 2009, 1:17 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Space wrote:
Spokane_Girl wrote:
You can get relationship without being social. Look at me, I hardly have any friends and I am going to get married in two months.

But you're a woman though, so your social inadequacy isn't like having AIDS


That's a rather sexist statement, trivializing the experience of another person on the basis of their gender.





But it's somehow true ,please try to be less 'politically correct' than that before saying such accusations, Space didn't say any blasphemy or sexist statement . Shyness and social awkwardness is a more critical weakness in guys sice the guy is the party who's obliged to approach the girl and not the way around. That doesn't mean that social awkwardness doesn't make it hard for aspie girls since one needs social skills to maintain a relation but social skills is more critical for guys when it comes to getting a date.

in other term, Spokane can't compare herself to aspie guys but only to other aspie girls in that very specific matter.


I'm sorry, LPP, but I'm not going to adjust my measure of what is sexist to accommodate your preference. Space's comment encompassed all women and was dismissive of their problems simply because of their gender; as we've all experienced, being different isn't easy, and to trivialize the experience of the female gender is pretty weak. You're making assumptions about obligations, as there are no rules... those one superimposes only serve to limit and restrict. Social skills are important for -anyone- interested in dating - I disagree that it is a gender-related issue, and have pointed that out.


M.


Unfortunately, I wish that it isn't a gender-related issue but in reality it is.

It is a gender-related as long the society impose gender roles. When even most aspie girls admit that the guys are the ones who should ask out girls (as a proof of confidence) and not the other way around then we're still stuck in those gender roles, that had been shown in some other thread. And no, this problem doesn't only exist in the middle east but it's almost everywhere , we can know that by the media and by what people talk on forums.

The society is based on gender roles and social gender-related rules and that's why the aspie girls' problems are slightly different that aspie guy's problems (yet equally hard).



Last edited by LePetitPrince on 08 Apr 2009, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MissConstrue
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06 Apr 2009, 1:22 pm

Hey if it makes you feel any better LPP, I have actually asked out a couple of guys in the past. But not on a date...even though it was hinted as that but to go out and have coffee.

But this has always been a difficulty for me as I did get rejected by one guy and took it personal because in some ways....I feel like that means most guys won't want to get with me. I do think their is a bit of a cultural aspect involved because my sister has no trouble with asking out guys but I can also see the other side of the coin where women do think it's the guy's job to do the asking and I would think that burden would be hard as hell on anyone especially aspies.

As I've said before, I've lived with a bunch of women and they are not all like Scarlett O' Harra.


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Last edited by MissConstrue on 06 Apr 2009, 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LePetitPrince
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06 Apr 2009, 1:24 pm

sunshower wrote:
Sorry guys, another topic about aspie guys and relationships. I've read so many bitter posts lately - specifically defeatist ones stating "I'm aspie and therefore there's nothing I can do to improve my chances of being in a relationship", and thought I may as well post it as a topic and get flamed down for it in the hope that some people will read it and understand what I'm trying to say (it's not the easiest thing to explain).

Firstly, being aspie is no excuse not to improve socially. Believe it or not, even NT's are constantly working on their social skills (*gasp* shock horror!). Take it from someone who knows NT's very well.

Being good socially, and suave romantically doesn't come to anyone naturally.

That being said, it took me 12 years of HARD WORK and throwing myself in the line of fire constantly to get to the point now where I am the social (not romantic) equal of your average NT. I'm not saying that it's possible for every aspie of my age to be advanced to the point where I am; I know I am lucky and my aspergers is relatively mild compared to most. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. Romantically - I am just beginning to learn, but I am sure it will take an equal amount of time and effort and rejection to get there.

A good analogy for it is like fighting a war - there's no point in giving up, you just take your losses and keep on fighting. Even if it's a war we can never win, we can at least gain ground as we go. If we just give up and retreat, we'll never get anywhere in life.

I see too many aspies with the attitude of "there's no point in trying", but then those same aspies complain about how miserable they are and how much rejection they get as though they don't realize that by giving up they are signing themselves up for a lifetime of misery.

Again, I want to emphazise that learning how to socialize took me as much work, and effort, and time, as learning 12 years of school education took. And it was more painful. And I've barely begun on learning about relationships.

The point my rambling post is trying to get to:

My advice is to take it one step at a time - learn how to be good socially first, THEN learn how to be in relationships. You can't just jump from prep to grade 12 and expect to pass, just like you can't just jump from being unable to even socialize properly to being in a relationship.

You can't be in a relationship until you learn how to socialize; criteria involving maintaining and being part of a group of NT friends, or having several NT friends.

Think of a ladder. To get from the bottom of the ladder to the top, you have to climb it rung by rung.

Marriage
---------
Learn how to maintain a long term relationship
---------
Learn the giving and taking and social rules of a relationship
---------
Learn how to enter a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship
---------
Learn the correct way to ask that person out
---------
Learn how to engage and maintain the interest of a particular member of the opposite sex
--------
Learn how to engage the interest of the opposite sex
--------
Flirt with someone
--------
Branch out and meet new people
--------
Become an equal member of a friendship group
--------
Learn enough about social correctness for people to stop bullying you
--------
Making several friends
---------
Making a friend
--------
Maintaining an acquaintance
--------
Having a two way conversation
--------
Greeting people

The bolded one is where I'm up to. :lol:

Also, I hope this is not offensive to anyone, I may have emphasized a bit strongly in places and I apologize.


That guide is very true.



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06 Apr 2009, 1:47 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
Oh wait I know....it's because I'm not a looker because that's the ONLY thing guys are after

I think you're good looking :)



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06 Apr 2009, 1:51 pm

Another one of my reasons for not pursuing a relationship is because I knew my social skills aren't good enough. I feel I need to spend several more years on my own and mature more. I'm just now trying to learn how to socialize right and it starts with learning from others.



j5689
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06 Apr 2009, 1:58 pm

I'm probably at this one:

Become an equal member of a friendship group


I'm not part of a group friends really and I never have been



Last edited by j5689 on 06 Apr 2009, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MissConstrue
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06 Apr 2009, 2:00 pm

Space wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
Oh wait I know....it's because I'm not a looker because that's the ONLY thing guys are after

I think you're good looking :)


Thanks... :oops:


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06 Apr 2009, 2:36 pm

Yeah, I was about to say "I have no idea what you're talking about." I'll bet that whoever suggested MissConstrue's lack of success with guys came from "bad looks" has never seen any pictures of her.



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06 Apr 2009, 3:57 pm

Space wrote:
But you're a woman though, so your social inadequacy isn't like having AIDS
makuranososhi wrote:
That's a rather sexist statement, trivializing the experience of another person on the basis of their gender.
LePetitPrince wrote:
Shyness and social awkwardness is a more critical weakness in guys...
No contest. Women have their issues, but on this one there's no comparison to what the men have to deal with. Women can have trouble starting a relationship, but not nearly as often or as severely. It's mostly an Aspie men's issue. They are also more likely to be homeless, largely because they are less likely to get sympathy.
It's like domestic abuse -- men are sometimes abused, but not nearly as often or as severely. It's mostly a women's issue. Rather than worrying about how to get in, a woman should make sure she always has a way out. That alone can be a deterrent to abuse.

MissConstrue wrote:
Oh wait I know....it's because I'm not a looker because that's the ONLY thing guys are after
I don't remember your picture. But that wouldn't cover it anyway. I've seen some pretty ugly brides. It's not about something so simple or tangeble. It's very individual and you can't make generallizations.

j5689 wrote:
I'm not part of a group friends really and I never have been
There's a moment coming up, in early college, where long-lasting, loose friendships can form and bond. It has a different quality to it than what I remember in high school. It was suddenly easier. They were mixed-gender groups, and didn't demand the same level of coolness, whatever that is. They just require a lot of maintenance. We spent a lot of time in the college cafeteria. Then again, maybe it was easier because the drinking age was 18 back then.
Has anyone in college recently noticed that?



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06 Apr 2009, 4:58 pm

Robert Sapolsky's stresed-out baboons
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2 ... sky-a.html

I dug out this link to refresh the subject of social hiarachy, sexual competition, scape goating and general bullying, and relate it to this thread. It's a huge subject that deserves everyone's serious study. There's probably no time in life when humans are more like animals than when they're hunting down a mate. Everything they say in English is a lie. It's all about strutting and chest-pounding and comparisons. The specific game varies between cultures, but the point is always that you need to win or you're out of the gene pool. Also, for reasons that I've never understood, the guy with the best social skills gets to pick the game.

And then I had another thought, also from this article. Maybe the key for some guys could be to find someone who already has a kid or, failing that, a small sibling. It's hard to resist a guy who is nice and protective to little kids. To some women, this can extend to pets and other things.