Turn-offs

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There is a middle ground for everything. I am always repusled by guys who think i'm unattractive also.
I can see through lapdogs and find their behaviour pathetic.

A lot of people can't and are flattered by it, which I also find pathetic.

B***h slapped by you? You don't do that to guys, do you?

Don't take it litereally. "b***h slapped" and "p*ssy beaten" are terms used for a guy who lets the woman wear the pants in a relationship and ends up giving her her own way all the time too scared or "nice" to say no, while not voicing his own opinion.

It also applies to people not in the relationship, non assertiveness to others.

Last edited by hale_bopp on 17 Apr 2010, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

By whom?*








* a rhetorical question. Clue: human nature

In all seriousness egalitarian relationships are definitely possible. But they aren't static they are dynamic power play in action.

It has more to do with empathy and kindness than you think. I'm not one to just defer to a woman on everything. I have my own opinions, and I tend to make them known. But at the same time, I'm not assertive either. If I was, I'd be dictating the terms of the relationship, which is not what I want. Ideally there should be some kind of equilibrium. But out of the many things I'd be willing to do for a relationship, I'm not going to become an inconsiderate prick... I draw the line there.

I'm fairly open, however I draw the line at people who constantly have a need to be put in line by deliberately acting out to provoke this. Not out of any idealism, simply because I can't be bothered with such people, I don't find them attractive...a turn off. However understand it is desirable to some in the BDSM community.

Dude, whats the deal with this? It's not an ideal; it's a reality. How do you not see the space in between? It means one day you say no, and then the next day you say yes. It's taking turns, its compromising.
Unilaterally dictating the terms of a relationship isn't being assertive, that's being a dick.

Why does this have to keep getting repeated? Do you not believe us? That you haven't experienced it is not an excuse at this point, as you have doubtless seen that others successfully find this middle ground. It exists, and it's not like searching for friggin Shangri La.

I do see the middle ground here just fine... I did mention "equilibrium" in my previous post, no?

My issue here is more with semantics, I guess. Being assertive is being a dick. You're asserting (i.e. dictating) the rules of the relationship. I don't want to be that. And if your (and i'm assuming hale's) definition of "assertive" doesn't mean that, then I guess what you're saying makes sense.

Being assertive as capability, not a set action.

IMO, the irony of the pushover is that he's really never content giving his partner her own way. Instead, he stores all the resentment and anger he feels toward said partner. Whether he takes it own on his next partner, or takes it out on himself (depression, addiction, low self-esteem, etc.), what he's really giving up is his ability to be a good mate. That's a really bad trade.

That clears it up then. It is semantics. I do not equate the word assertive with controlling behavior. That would be over-assertiveness, so-to-speak.

Also, 0_equals_true is continually correct.

I think that's the real issue, Toad - your idea that being assertive equals being a dick, or that it means you're dictating the rules of the relationship. Telling your partner what you want isn't a bad thing - it's the basis of compromise: you can't have compromise if you can't express what you need/want. And being honest about what you need is pretty much each partner's responsibility.

Ahhh but it's a little more than that, even... I don't think that push-overs realize that they're not telling their significant other what it is they want. They think they're doing what gets them what they want.
Tragic.

I think the difference between being assertive and being a dick, is one of whether the act of assertion or holding a position in an argument, goes into unfair territory for either person. If you can't judge fair from unfair, then assertiveness and being a dick become indistinguishable.

If you fail to assert when pushed into unfair territory, you will be unhappy. If you're a dick and you push another person into unfair territory, the other person will be unhappy. Sometimes even if things are held in fair territory, one or the other will still be unhappy, in which case the priority is to be fair.

I'm guessing many women will tentatively push a guy into unfair territory to see if the guy can correctly judge fair from unfair. Hence he's been "b***h slapped" if he establishes a pattern of not reacting appropriately and the woman walks away and chats up another guy with relative ease. Remember, women can be jerks too! So guys need to watch out for this, recognize it and react appropriately, which in some instances may mean voting with his feet, as opposed to complaining about how the women are doing this.

Turnoffs? from personal experience:
1. guys who have to act cool and manly around their mates
2. guys who think because they like anime they are 'alternative' and therefore more intelligent/better than everyone else
3. guys who are deliberately crude, sexist, racist, or...
4. guys who take offence to everything easily, and have no sense of humour.

not from personal experience:
1.Jocks!