nice guys?

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hyperlexian
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16 Jul 2012, 3:27 am

edgewaters wrote:

Zinnel wrote:

I agree with hyperlexian, however I think this "nice guy" term needs to be explained alittle bit more

Imagine any guy who has a hard time trying to impress a girl he really likes or strikes out alot when he is asking a girl out. He eventually gets bummed out and confides in a close friend(sometimes a girl sometimes a guy). Now this close friend to cheer him up tell him hes a "nice guy" and that he will find a girl like him for who he is....or whatever.....

The point is after awhile he hears the term "nice guy" so much that he begins to think that its the reason he has bad luck with women. And what is the oppsite of a nice person easy a jerk and thus the Nice guy vs. Jerk silly argument is born. Now it may differ from person to person but this is usualy how it happens.

Now sometimes the guy who experinces this focus so much on this Title of "nice guy" that he becomes bitter towards women, thus only hurting himself more.

Most "nice guys" are or were genuinely nice people and but that is never why they had or have problems with women.
On average the problem usualy is lack of confidence or appearing to have a lack of confidence.

I like this post.

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HisDivineMajesty
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16 Jul 2012, 7:01 am

Kjas wrote:

But at the end of the day, if he can't even take care of or protect himself, how on earth can a woman trust that he would ever be able to take care of or protect her, if such a situation ever occured that necessitated that? She couldn't.

That is why a guy who can take care of himself is attractive - especially if he is kind as well.

And that's where feminism ends for me. Finally, something to genuinely argue about.
It's all about equal rights, but certainly not equal responsibilities or equal expectations.

Kjas
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16 Jul 2012, 7:04 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

Its bad enough im a nice guy but an aspie as well so either way I tend to be vulnerable to manipulation.

Which only makes it twice as important that you try to take care of yourself.

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

And that's where feminism ends for me. Finally, something to genuinely argue about.
It's all about equal rights, but certainly not equal responsibilities or equal expectations.

I said "if necessary". The same as any decent human being should do, be they male or female, if somebody else needs help because they cannot for whatever reason, protect themselves. That applies to the opposite also. I'm not a feminist - maybe you should get your facts straight first cause you seem to have a thing about making incorrect assumptions when discussing things with me.

If you see someone bullying or harassing someone - you don't stand back and let it happen.
I'm sure if you were bullied, you would have wanted or appeciated if someone stuck up for you and tried to help you, regardless of whether they were a girl or a guy.

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1000Knives
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16 Jul 2012, 7:42 am

Shau wrote:

I already know I'm far from the typical example, but when I'm trying to impress a chick, the first order of business for me is brandishing a bit of my intelligence and wit, not trying to look like I'm out to please everyone.

I've learned to just ignore the females and then they'll start coming to you. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy4FXhkm6Nw[/youtube]
This song I think sums up dating. I guess. Hell if I know.

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16 Jul 2012, 7:53 am

Dude if that worked for me, I'd have been drowning in ass the entire first 24 years of my life.

[edit] BUT THAT TRICK WORKS WONDERS ON GAY MEN

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HisDivineMajesty
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16 Jul 2012, 8:16 am

Kjas wrote:

I'm not saying you're a feminist. I'm saying that this opinion - and most women I speak to share that opinion - basically destroys any theoretical arguments for feminism based on equal treatment. Women have equal rights, but still like men who can take care of them. They want social and economic rights like it's 2012, but expect social and economic responsibility from men like it's 1950. And once again, there's a difference between your ideals and the truth. In this case, the truth is that defending other people from injustice isn't something natural, especially if they're grown men. If something really goes wrong, women can still expect preferential treatment.

Kjas wrote:

If you see someone bullying or harassing someone - you don't stand back and let it happen.
I'm sure if you were bullied, you would have wanted or appeciated if someone stuck up for you and tried to help you, regardless of whether they were a girl or a guy.

That's what people say. What they do is rather different. Most people would stand back and let it happen.
And I won't even say that's a bad thing. It's a human thing, and the ground rules are evident.

AScomposer13413
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16 Jul 2012, 10:39 am

DanRaccoon wrote:

Nicer guys tend to be more open to manipulation so I can't understand why females wouldn't latch onto them.

First off, not all women are manipulative. Second off, why would a guy want to be manipulated into a relationship?? That kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me.

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MXH
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16 Jul 2012, 11:24 am

blunnet wrote:

The problem is when women think the jerks they are dating are nice guys. And I mean nice women, if some women are jerks themselves and are dating jerks, who cares?

Very good point. I always hear this out of women who look for nice guys. This could be for many reasons like a nice guy still havin a bit of 'bad boy' in him and makes him more attractive, or it could be just someone really good at pretending to be nice, or even wrong expectations of what nice is.

For me i was raised to be an actual nice guy, and not in the nice to people i like way i mean nice to everyone equaly way. Yet something about me is as attractive as a pile of horses**t. Something so terrible that nobody has ever seemed interested in me. Be it strangers or women that have known me. If anything the women that have seemed interested simply were to get something out of me, but a life of hardship and female friends who have shown me what girls do to manipulate has made me good at not falling for that.

So i can understand the niceguy/badboy argument as ive seen so far that women in my age group do tend to go for one more than the other. Why? i dont know, but its impossible to say it doesnt happen

J-Greens
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16 Jul 2012, 11:25 am

AScomposer13413 wrote:

[First off, not all women are manipulative. Second off, why would a guy want to be manipulated into a relationship?? That kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me.

I wouldn't mind. Really.

singularity
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16 Jul 2012, 1:13 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Women have equal rights, but still like men who can take care of them. They want social and economic rights like it's 2012, but expect social and economic responsibility from men like it's 1950.

I know this is derailing this thread, and I really hate to get into it, because from reading your posts I get the impression that changing your mind or affecting your perspective is an impossibility...but WTF? HELLO! Women are NOT equal. EVERWHERE on this planet they are degraded, marginalised, objectified, and denigrated. We STILL don't have rights to our own reproduction, and even in the western world we earn about 70% of what men do. We've have come a LONG way, but we still have a VERY LONG way to go. It makes me angry when I hear women denying that they're feminists, just because men have been spitting that label at them like an epithet their whole life.

DogsWithoutHorses
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16 Jul 2012, 1:23 pm

singularity wrote:

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Women have equal rights, but still like men who can take care of them. They want social and economic rights like it's 2012, but expect social and economic responsibility from men like it's 1950.

He likes to pick fights for the sake of fighting.
I really appreciate your perspective and comments (because I 100% agree and the more of us there are the harder it is to shout us down)

but this discussion, which is actually one of the best and most productive on the concept of "niceguys" we've ever been able to have here, will be turned into a poop fest if we engage with the nonsense, which is the goal of the nonsense in the first place, to turn decent conversation into a melee of stupid some sh*tlord can feel like they won

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J-Greens
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16 Jul 2012, 1:34 pm

DogsWithoutHorses, why are you being hypocritical? You say that another poster is baiting and then you post this " the more of us there are the harder it is to shout us down "

Are you looking to escalate this?

MXH
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16 Jul 2012, 1:34 pm

singularity wrote:

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Women have equal rights, but still like men who can take care of them. They want social and economic rights like it's 2012, but expect social and economic responsibility from men like it's 1950.

2 things.

1- misinformation much? Those arent close to the actual numbers. They sound more like propaganda numbers. women under 25 working full-time earned 93.2% of men's salaries and women over 25 make 79.4%, which can be attributed by things such as seniority of the men working there. Now to continue on other things. degraded, marginalised, objectified, and denigrated? you mean just like what is done to men and to just about every race? Thats a human instinct that happens to everyone, not just women.

2- you say theres a very long way to go, i dont think it would be that long a way if women would step up to a more equal role in society. But as HDM says that just isnt happening. You can get equality or special treatment but not both. Im all for equality in its purest sense but this is as far as women will get if they dont take more action than just complaining on the internet.

MXH
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16 Jul 2012, 1:37 pm

J-Greens wrote:

umm, youve not noticed this yet? She ALWAYS does this. Ive yet to see her offer anyone any real advice in this forum but simply complains on everything that happens here.

jdanaya
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16 Jul 2012, 1:37 pm

Yeah I been used by girls in the past, hard for me read women tbh, I just try and take care of myself the best I can, sometimes it works, sometimes I get used and screwed over.

singularity
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16 Jul 2012, 1:40 pm

J-Greens: Dogswithouhorses is agreeing with me by saying the world needs more feminists, but neither one of us wants to derail this thread.

MHX: Um, have you ever heard about 'blaming the victim'? A feminist can be a man, too. it seems that most people living in the western world have become complacent (and brainwashed by our commercial culture) into believing that women are now equal, and we should 'put up or shut up.' Very sad.

I am done. let's get back to 'nice guys'

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