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Girls agree to go out then change their mind.

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BoobooBear
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14 Sep 2015, 12:44 pm

Phemto wrote:
KumquatQueen wrote:
No, actually, you don't HAVE to put up with flakiness when dating,


How exactly is it that we don't have to put up with it. The discussion here has moved beyond this one instance and pointed out that it is very common. When I was dating I could go on a stretch of being flaked on for many times in a row

ALL WITH DIFFERENT WOMEN

So how exactly am I supposed to tell a woman is going to flake on me on the first date?

That was the point. There is no way to know.

And the point of the rape discussion was never to "prove equivalence," as you put it. It was to point out the ridiculousness of your argument. Let's stop victim blaming on both sides. If that is all you have to contribute, than you're not helping anyone here.

Let's try to stick to sympathetic and useful advice.


Nobody can tell if a person's going to flake on a first date and there's no way to stop DIFFERENT women from flaking on any given guy. I don't think there's any useful advice we can offer this guy.

If he's lucky, he just happened to get blown off by 4 flakes in a row and did nothing wrong. If he's the problem, he will continue to get blown off because he is [alienating or scaring girls away] and some sort of professional intervention is probably required -- as he lacks the self-awareness to figure out what he is doing wrong, let alone address the problem.

Why offer encouragement? There are no guarantees for anyone.



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14 Sep 2015, 12:57 pm

RubyTates wrote:


It sounds as though you are acting like a gentleman, and unfortunately, the NT girls (I'm assuming they are NT) nowadays do not deserve gentlemen. I am saying this as an Aspie girl. Most of my encounters with NT girls has been absolutely vile and the ones that I have met are so air-headed and ambivalent about relationships. The way I see it, if they are not willing to meet and see how it goes, then they are not serious to begin with and should be dropped. I used to pine after some NT guys and hope for the best, but they would always resort to mind games. Nowadays, I have learned my lesson and the moment they start backtracking and playing games I immediately lose interest and make sure I show them that I have lost interest in them. THIS has actually caused them to go after me even more, which I do not appreciate as I already saw their true colors and have no interest in them any longer.

Do not let it affect your self-esteem. Once you stop actively pursuing these girls, one will just fall right in to your lap (figuratively speaking). Or, perhaps, these girls are not mature enough yet to deal with relationships. I advise you to lay off of the pursuit of dating for a while and see if you can develop friendships with girls IRL first. You may be able tot urn them into a good relationship once you both have gotten comfortable with one another. At least, this is what I am planning on doing in order to find "the one."

Best of luck!


Thank you RubyTates. THAT is sympathetic encouragement.

My one caveat is that "lay off... and she'll fall in your lap" advice does not work for guys. Women tend not to pursue passive guys. They just assume you're not interested or even straight. It also appears that women are much less likely than guys to make the mental transition from "good friend" to "boy friend," so proving your worth as a friend usually only gets you a friend. I say "only" in comparison. By all means surround yourself with as many friends as possible. It can only help with the crushing loneliness.

Here's something specific that may or may not be relevant. Have someone you trust check your breath. For years, no one told me that twice daily flossing and brushing was not sufficient. You need mouth wash AND a tongue scraper if you want to be really sure. It was actually well into my marriage before I figured it out. I kept getting mad at my wife for telling me to "go brush my teeth" 15 minutes after I already had.

It's one of those things that's not necessarily common knowledge, and even google doesn't help because you get a million hits hawking products that may or may not help.



Lukeda420
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14 Sep 2015, 1:15 pm

It sounds as though you are acting like a gentleman, and unfortunately, the NT girls (I'm assuming they are NT) nowadays do not deserve gentlemen. I am saying this as an Aspie girl. Most of my encounters with NT girls has been absolutely vile and the ones that I have met are so air-headed and ambivalent about relationships. The way I see it, if they are not willing to meet and see how it goes, then they are not serious to begin with and should be dropped. I used to pine after some NT guys and hope for the best, but they would always resort to mind games. Nowadays, I have learned my lesson and the moment they start backtracking and playing games I immediately lose interest and make sure I show them that I have lost interest in them. THIS has actually caused them to go after me even more, which I do not appreciate as I already saw their true colors and have no interest in them any longer.

Do not let it affect your self-esteem. Once you stop actively pursuing these girls, one will just fall right in to your lap (figuratively speaking). Or, perhaps, these girls are not mature enough yet to deal with relationships. I advise you to lay off of the pursuit of dating for a while and see if you can develop friendships with girls IRL first. You may be able tot urn them into a good relationship once you both have gotten comfortable with one another. At least, this is what I am planning on doing in order to find "the one."

Best of luck![/quote]

Thank you. It's a little hard for me to see the little hints so I know I'm going to run into a few more flakes. Oh well. And yeah, as it was pointed out, I can't really just stop looking. Partially because girls really don't approach me and because if I'm going to make female friends I'm going to have to get out and look. I just have to learn to not attach any emotion to the outcome because that will just be setting myself up for more hurt.



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14 Sep 2015, 1:19 pm

RubyTates wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
A couple have been people I've talked to online, and a couple were people I met IRL. The two that really hurt was first a girl I asked out IRL and she said yes. We exchanged numbers and she accepted my FB friend request. She then told me she had a boyfriend a few days later. The last one was a girl I met online. We were messaging for over a month. She gave me her number and texted me the entire time she was on vacation, promising we'd get together when she got back. Well, we set up a date to meet and just a few hours before we were supposed to meet, she cancelled. She said she was busy but we'll "definitely reschedule." Then two days later after not responding to my texts she tells me she's not interested anymore.

That last one really hurt. I was just starting to become confident that things were starting to go well and despite my best efforts I got my hopes up. I just can't seem to figure these things out. :cry:



It sounds as though you are acting like a gentleman, and unfortunately, the NT girls (I'm assuming they are NT) nowadays do not deserve gentlemen. I am saying this as an Aspie girl. Most of my encounters with NT girls has been absolutely vile and the ones that I have met are so air-headed and ambivalent about relationships. The way I see it, if they are not willing to meet and see how it goes, then they are not serious to begin with and should be dropped. I used to pine after some NT guys and hope for the best, but they would always resort to mind games. Nowadays, I have learned my lesson and the moment they start backtracking and playing games I immediately lose interest and make sure I show them that I have lost interest in them. THIS has actually caused them to go after me even more, which I do not appreciate as I already saw their true colors and have no interest in them any longer.

Do not let it affect your self-esteem. Once you stop actively pursuing these girls, one will just fall right in to your lap (figuratively speaking). Or, perhaps, these girls are not mature enough yet to deal with relationships. I advise you to lay off of the pursuit of dating for a while and see if you can develop friendships with girls IRL first. You may be able tot urn them into a good relationship once you both have gotten comfortable with one another. At least, this is what I am planning on doing in order to find "the one."

Best of luck!


That's a very harsh comment against NT women :(. I realise you're trying to encourage Luke, but it's unfair to say that no NT women deserve a gentlemen. There are many, many NT women out there that are more than worthy.


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Lukeda420
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14 Sep 2015, 1:25 pm

BoobooBear wrote:
Phemto wrote:
KumquatQueen wrote:
No, actually, you don't HAVE to put up with flakiness when dating,


How exactly is it that we don't have to put up with it. The discussion here has moved beyond this one instance and pointed out that it is very common. When I was dating I could go on a stretch of being flaked on for many times in a row

ALL WITH DIFFERENT WOMEN

So how exactly am I supposed to tell a woman is going to flake on me on the first date?

That was the point. There is no way to know.

And the point of the rape discussion was never to "prove equivalence," as you put it. It was to point out the ridiculousness of your argument. Let's stop victim blaming on both sides. If that is all you have to contribute, than you're not helping anyone here.

Let's try to stick to sympathetic and useful advice.


Nobody can tell if a person's going to flake on a first date and there's no way to stop DIFFERENT women from flaking on any given guy. I don't think there's any useful advice we can offer this guy.

If he's lucky, he just happened to get blown off by 4 flakes in a row and did nothing wrong. If he's the problem, he will continue to get blown off because he is [alienating or scaring girls away] and some sort of professional intervention is probably required -- as he lacks the self-awareness to figure out what he is doing wrong, let alone address the problem.

Why offer encouragement? There are no guarantees for anyone.


What the replies here are telling me is that I'm fine and that this is all just part of the process. And also I'm trying to increase my self awareness by trying to find out if there any seemingly innocuous actions that I could take that would turn the other person off.

Please keep offering encouragement. It helps me manage my expectations, it helps me get over the rejection and it reminds me that dating is hard and it is going to hurt so I just have to keep pressing on no matter how much it hurts.

Oh and to the last poster. I understand what she means. I just think she was making a quick generalization and I don't think it's worth putting too much thought into.



Ecomatt91
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14 Sep 2015, 4:50 pm

The problem here is the white lies especially when being turned down. It so frustrating to me. The more I am getting turned down and white lies, it doesn't make my outlook looks good. I get so many friends and that people told me that I will get a girlfriend because I am harmless, nice and strong guy. Isn't that what women likes in a guy? I am not alcoholic, party, unorganised, dirty kind of guy with gym junkie kind of attitudes that make themselves weird.

White lies are killing me. It easily makes me feel that I still can't get a girlfriend.



kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2015, 5:15 pm

Yep...it's part of the process. You have to keep plugging away...and know that it's not necessarily YOU that's causing all this "flaking" (I think I encountered that term a year ago here, but never anywhere else).

If you become bitter, you'll fall deep into a hole that you'll find difficult to get out of.



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14 Sep 2015, 5:38 pm

Kinme wrote:
I think what happens is women don't know how to say no directly, and will constantly find ways to avoid rather than resolve. Women are like this toward other women--trust me. I deal with this garbage on a daily basis with my female friends. They are faaaaaaar from direct and forward about things; this is why women gossip instead of saying something to each others' face: they fear conflict, yet love causing trouble. It's something I think a lot of men don't understand about women, and will continually ask these same questions and question their own sanity. No, it isn't you. It's definitely the women you're choosing to message. Not ALL of us are like this, but the majority of women I've met tend to be.


I think you are right. I have known many girls IRL (probably all NT), and I have come to the conclusion that most of them are masters at shifting the blame away from themselves (they manipulate the conversation to make it sound like everything was your idea, in case of future conflict), and weasling their way out of sticky situations.



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14 Sep 2015, 9:09 pm

Perhaps she would have been better off to have not made so blatant an effort to retcon by back-pedaling ... :roll:



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14 Sep 2015, 9:18 pm

Inle wrote:
RubyTates wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
A couple have been people I've talked to online, and a couple were people I met IRL. The two that really hurt was first a girl I asked out IRL and she said yes. We exchanged numbers and she accepted my FB friend request. She then told me she had a boyfriend a few days later. The last one was a girl I met online. We were messaging for over a month. She gave me her number and texted me the entire time she was on vacation, promising we'd get together when she got back. Well, we set up a date to meet and just a few hours before we were supposed to meet, she cancelled. She said she was busy but we'll "definitely reschedule." Then two days later after not responding to my texts she tells me she's not interested anymore.

That last one really hurt. I was just starting to become confident that things were starting to go well and despite my best efforts I got my hopes up. I just can't seem to figure these things out. :cry:



It sounds as though you are acting like a gentleman, and unfortunately, the NT girls (I'm assuming they are NT) nowadays do not deserve gentlemen. I am saying this as an Aspie girl. Most of my encounters with NT girls has been absolutely vile and the ones that I have met are so air-headed and ambivalent about relationships. The way I see it, if they are not willing to meet and see how it goes, then they are not serious to begin with and should be dropped. I used to pine after some NT guys and hope for the best, but they would always resort to mind games. Nowadays, I have learned my lesson and the moment they start backtracking and playing games I immediately lose interest and make sure I show them that I have lost interest in them. THIS has actually caused them to go after me even more, which I do not appreciate as I already saw their true colors and have no interest in them any longer.

Do not let it affect your self-esteem. Once you stop actively pursuing these girls, one will just fall right in to your lap (figuratively speaking). Or, perhaps, these girls are not mature enough yet to deal with relationships. I advise you to lay off of the pursuit of dating for a while and see if you can develop friendships with girls IRL first. You may be able tot urn them into a good relationship once you both have gotten comfortable with one another. At least, this is what I am planning on doing in order to find "the one."

Best of luck!


That's a very harsh comment against NT women :(. I realise you're trying to encourage Luke, but it's unfair to say that no NT women deserve a gentlemen. There are many, many NT women out there that are more than worthy.


I want my Hunny to be a gentleman, thank you very much.


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14 Sep 2015, 9:39 pm

SilverStar wrote:
Kinme wrote:
I think what happens is women don't know how to say no directly, and will constantly find ways to avoid rather than resolve. Women are like this toward other women--trust me. I deal with this garbage on a daily basis with my female friends. They are faaaaaaar from direct and forward about things; this is why women gossip instead of saying something to each others' face: they fear conflict, yet love causing trouble. It's something I think a lot of men don't understand about women, and will continually ask these same questions and question their own sanity. No, it isn't you. It's definitely the women you're choosing to message. Not ALL of us are like this, but the majority of women I've met tend to be.


I think you are right. I have known many girls IRL (probably all NT), and I have come to the conclusion that most of them are masters at shifting the blame away from themselves (they manipulate the conversation to make it sound like everything was your idea, in case of future conflict), and weasling their way out of sticky situations.


Can't we just say "girls" instead of saying "probably all NT"? Actually I've had problems with Aspie men - and I don't even know that many. One I talked to for two months every day and he just stopped saying anything and I still don't know why. I had no clue that was even coming. And you all know about my Aspie friend - he even said he wished we could go out and we might have if it wasn't for my pesky zodiac sign not matching his (guess that's my fault). Never heard that before from an NT guy. Can't change my zodiac sign so I guess there's no hope, but I'm not going to hold that against all Aspie men. NT's and Aspies shouldn't be grouped as "all having a problem" because everyone is different and there can be problems with certain people from each group. Singling out a group with "all" just makes people want to dislike that group even more and anyone associated with that group. I call it "groupism".


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15 Sep 2015, 12:29 am

Were the ones in real life clear that you were asking for a romantic date and not a hangout? I ask specifically because the one who stated she had a boyfriend several days later might have been genuinely unaware of your intent and thought you just wanted to be friends. I say this because if someone asked me, that would be my assumption, so I give her (absent additional information) benefit of the doubt.

This of course does not apply to online dating. In those cases I suspect what happened might be a fear response - its terrifying to meet a guy from online in person. There is absolutely nothing you can do about that.

Consider, if they flake, asking why they are doing so and saying you would genuinely appreciate any information they can give because you would like to be successful elsewhere in the future. Some people will take this the wrong way but there's little risk since they (apparently) were not interested enough anyway. Direct evidence = awesome.



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15 Sep 2015, 1:14 am

BoobooBear wrote:
Phemto wrote:
KumquatQueen wrote:
No, actually, you don't HAVE to put up with flakiness when dating,


How exactly is it that we don't have to put up with it. The discussion here has moved beyond this one instance and pointed out that it is very common. When I was dating I could go on a stretch of being flaked on for many times in a row

ALL WITH DIFFERENT WOMEN

So how exactly am I supposed to tell a woman is going to flake on me on the first date?

That was the point. There is no way to know.

And the point of the rape discussion was never to "prove equivalence," as you put it. It was to point out the ridiculousness of your argument. Let's stop victim blaming on both sides. If that is all you have to contribute, than you're not helping anyone here.

Let's try to stick to sympathetic and useful advice.


If he's the problem, he will continue to get blown off because he is [alienating or scaring girls away]


Your misandrist assumptions again, Katy.

Mods, kindly ban her again.



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15 Sep 2015, 1:28 am

KumquatQueen wrote:
Phemto wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
KumquatQueen wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Venger wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The first (and last) girl who flaked on me (for 4th time in row) - begged me for another chance but I rejected her offer for good. How? My reaction when she told me about the cancellation was like "what a relief! thanks goodness it came from you, I wanted to cancel it too and I was feeling so embarrassed all day to tell you." That made her burn.
I bet she was thinking something like "WTF? I'm the only one here that's allowed to play mind-games!"
It's part of the "Female Privilege", and the ones who deny it most strongly seem to also be the ones who play it most often.


Nobody can treat you badly without your consent. Forgiving some girl who flaked 3-4x is ENCOURAGING the girl to treat you terribly.

Say goodbye after the first or, at most, second flakeing!!


Let's look at this logic and reconstruct it.

Premise 1. If anyone treats you badly then you gave consent.
Premise 2. Someone treats you badly.
Conclusion: You gave consent.

Let's modify this a bit.

Premise 1. Rape is a form of being treated badly
Premise 2. If anyone treats you badly then you gave consent.
Premise 3. If one is raped then they were treated badly.
Premise 4. One is raped.
Premise 5. One is treated badly.

Conclusion: The one who was raped consented to being raped.


They already clarified that he meant that only in regards to the specific situation being described.


Then perhaps she shouldn't have said "Nobody." This is exactly the kind of response I was warning Lukeda420 against in my early post.

cubedemon's point is blunt, but not without merit as a reductio ab absurdum argument. If you can blame him for "choosing" to go out with a flake, then you can blame a woman for "choosing" a date rapist. There's a tendency toward victim blaming when things go bad. There was really no way to know that he was dealing with a flake before the first event, and even then there's a possibility that it was an isolated incident.

There is also a lack of understanding of the men's perspective. Especially the Aspie man's perspective. If you're online dating, you go contact dozens of women before you have a single meaningful online conversation. You go through dozens of those before you reach the point of meeting in IRL. You're not exactly in a position to just shout "NEXT!" when she flakes out once or even twice.

You don't tell a third world kid with cholera it's his fault for drinking from the contaminated well when
A) He had no way of knowing ahead and time, or
B) His choice was risk it or die of thirst.


No, actually, you don't HAVE to put up with flakiness when dating, or even when online dating and the person(s) drawing equivalences between CHOOSING to repeatedly give 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances to flakes and the VIOLENT HORRIFIC CRIME THAT IS RAPE, ugh, I've no patience for.

Also, you DO know you are dating a flake if she/he FLAKES one or three times and you still CHOOSE to go out with him/her. You knew they were flaky and decided to overlook it. Ergo you should stop complaining about flaky dates. Or stop picking them!

I've yet to meet a girl who agrees to a second another date with a guy who sexually assaulted her (or even a dude who got too hansy or pushed his luck). I'd certainly NEVER agree to a third or fourth date with such a dude!


You aren't taking the possibility that there might be an already established friendship bond between the guy and the flake - and the flake's excuses may have sounded very convincing and genuine (and I was more naive back then). Surely, I wouldn't have tried with a stranger more than once.

At least, she had the courtesy for not making me stood up like an idiot.

One thing I agree with you Katy (Hallelujah!) - that comparing flaking with rape or any other crime is ridiculous.



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15 Sep 2015, 1:55 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
BoobooBear wrote:
Phemto wrote:
KumquatQueen wrote:
No, actually, you don't HAVE to put up with flakiness when dating,


How exactly is it that we don't have to put up with it. The discussion here has moved beyond this one instance and pointed out that it is very common. When I was dating I could go on a stretch of being flaked on for many times in a row

ALL WITH DIFFERENT WOMEN

So how exactly am I supposed to tell a woman is going to flake on me on the first date?

That was the point. There is no way to know.

And the point of the rape discussion was never to "prove equivalence," as you put it. It was to point out the ridiculousness of your argument. Let's stop victim blaming on both sides. If that is all you have to contribute, than you're not helping anyone here.

Let's try to stick to sympathetic and useful advice.


If he's the problem, he will continue to get blown off because he is [alienating or scaring girls away]


Your misandrist assumptions again, Katy.

Mods, kindly ban her again.


Female-privilege is precisely the reason why she assumed that the mods would NEVER ban her in the first place.(only ban the male equivalent)

She's now butthurt over that and out for revenge. :roll:



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15 Sep 2015, 8:13 am

Gwenwyn wrote:
Were the ones in real life clear that you were asking for a romantic date and not a hangout? I ask specifically because the one who stated she had a boyfriend several days later might have been genuinely unaware of your intent and thought you just wanted to be friends. I say this because if someone asked me, that would be my assumption, so I give her (absent additional information) benefit of the doubt.

This of course does not apply to online dating. In those cases I suspect what happened might be a fear response - its terrifying to meet a guy from online in person. There is absolutely nothing you can do about that.

Consider, if they flake, asking why they are doing so and saying you would genuinely appreciate any information they can give because you would like to be successful elsewhere in the future. Some people will take this the wrong way but there's little risk since they (apparently) were not interested enough anyway. Direct evidence = awesome.


Yeah this is what I have been thinking. That is probably what happened. I sometimes think I'm a little too polite. I don't really know how to express romantic interest and I'm so afraid or making someone uncomfortable. That might be causing people to misread my feelings. I think I need to be a little bolder in my approach.