Nice guys REALLY DO finish last.

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22 May 2012, 3:06 am

I always finish last. I could be a mean guy but sadly its just not my nature and I hate being mean to others. I guess I will just stay in last place.

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hyperlexian
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22 May 2012, 3:07 am

1000Knives wrote:

Nah bro, don't worry, per PUA standards, you just gave her a neg.

and it worked as well for him as it does for the PUA. :wink:

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hyperlexian
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22 May 2012, 3:08 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:

Snaps for mds_02 handling this topic. Made this thread so much nicer (bearable) to read through.
Said pretty much everything and some with a lot more tact than I would have bothered with.

agreed on the first count, and i can relate to the second one.

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spongy
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22 May 2012, 4:43 am

MXH wrote:

spongy wrote:

cyberscan wrote:

Yes, it is very true. Nice guys do finish last. To get ahead in this world means that you have to stop being a nice guy.
I suggest for guys out there who are looking (for women) to read the pickup artist book called, "The Game." I believe, that the OP is right on the money. Even when a nice guy is not "after a woman," he can expect to be used and abused. I have on many cases helped people out of desperate situations only to find out that they have laughed about my generosity later. In order to learn how to "get woman," one has to learn how to manipulate their emotions. The book called, "The Game" teaches exactly that. The methods may not work on all women, but they will work on women in general. For all of the people who will be offended at my suggestion, please realize that I say, "in general." My recommendation is based upon 43 years of experience.

I find it funny that your suggestion to improve is read a book about how some guys got obsessed with getting girls and one of them ended up in a mental home several times when girls rejected him(thats how the book starts and in the middle of the book Mistery is back again at the mental home)

Also the game works for Mistery because as Style describes him on the book he is a high functioning sociopath who wants to be the centre of attention at all times(some family issues and his father beat him up when he was a child) and he gains a lot from the attention he gets

If like him you are a high functioning socipath that can adapt to any situation and you live on validation from the outside plus you dont mind a few stays at mental homes(lets face it there are going to be moments when people dont give you attention and if you base your life on the attention of others you are bound to end up with depression and whatnot) then go for it.
With that being said I dont think that theres much of an improvement in the character described by Strauss. I mean yes he could get girls but he was unhappy with himself and eventually he had several nervous breakdowns. I may not be the most successful man out there but Im not looking forward to a nervous breakdown whenever some girl says no(which is how the book starts)

LOL. pretty much what i said last page. Also i hate to disclose things like this but he has been making some very depressing posts in his skype lately. As much as i want to hate him for being an ass i feel sort of sad for him

Sorry I missed your post.This threads tend to grab quite a lot of attention and Im unable to read them through.
Just came across your post and I see that you brought up the depression thing as well.
I will try to keep a closer eye on all posts before posting.

Ldub20Owl316
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22 May 2012, 7:06 am

Ark wrote:

Have you ever heard a girl say "Oh I just want a nice guy who will treat me right etc.". Well from what I can see, that's not true. All of the girls that I know would say that I am a "nice guy". I am extremely careful to make sure that I don't say anything offensive. I always talk to them with respect. Albeit I am a bit shy and "awkward" around girls but still I am a nice guy and yet I have never had a girlfriend. Meanwhile they go out with all of these superficial, jersey shore watching douche bag guys who clearly want them more for the physical pleasure that they can bring to them rather than for an actual deep relationship. Now-a-days I just feel like throwing up anytime I hear a girl say that she wants a nice guy because I don't think its true for most girls. Most girls seem to want an arrogant, over the top, disrespectful guy instead for reasons that I cannot comprehend.

Does anyone else notice this? Is it the same in your area?

Are you saying that every girl you know would rather date men who mock the intelligence of other people and are rude, inconsiderate, self-centered, condescending, conceited, hypocritical, and egotistical (aka CAVEMEN)? If so, that is sickening, baffling, and disgusting. Do women really fall for those men and rather date them than Aspies?

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22 May 2012, 7:45 am

Im pretty sure this hasnt been brought up yet so here we go:

You say that every woman youve met wanted to date a douche/whatever.
I used to think that everyone was out to take advantage of me because that had been my only experience. For several years I thought that people were out to get me and eventually every friendship ended because of this. Where they all trying to get advantage of me? Thats quite unlikely and most likely some sort of paranoia.
But quite a few of them were and I used to focus on those and overlook the others.

I did everything I could to stop this: change my clothing style several times just to look cooler/did research on how people interacted with each other... but it kept happening so eventually I restricted myself to some sort of online life because words on a screen couldnt hurt me at the time.

Time passed and everything was kinda nice, I limited my interactions with class mates/friends whatever and I wasnt unhappy but I started to wonder about how long was I going to be able to live this way so I put myself out there again.

Only requisite was to avoid earlier abusive friendships/relationships and to keep an open mind about every opportunity that may come up.
Guess what? I havent felt that people are using me in months whereas I used to think about it several times a week and I have had no issues being taken advantage of and previous "friends" that didnt return my calls? those are now texting me asking if we can arrange a meeting...

So my question is: where are you meeting all this girls and have you thought about looking for people elsewhere?. Please note that I didnt say females, if you want to have some success on the dating game you need to work on your social skills and this involves being able to talk to people of either gender with ease.

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22 May 2012, 8:43 am

spongy wrote:

I think multiple people who normally dont see eye to eye saying the same thing might make the point come across much more clearly

mv
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22 May 2012, 8:49 am

spongy wrote:

Im pretty sure this hasnt been brought up yet so here we go:

You say that every woman youve met wanted to date a douche/whatever.
I used to think that everyone was out to take advantage of me because that had been my only experience. For several years I thought that people were out to get me and eventually every friendship ended because of this. Where they all trying to get advantage of me? Thats quite unlikely and most likely some sort of paranoia.
But quite a few of them were and I used to focus on those and overlook the others.

I did everything I could to stop this: change my clothing style several times just to look cooler/did research on how people interacted with each other... but it kept happening so eventually I restricted myself to some sort of online life because words on a screen couldnt hurt me at the time.

Time passed and everything was kinda nice, I limited my interactions with class mates/friends whatever and I wasnt unhappy but I started to wonder about how long was I going to be able to live this way so I put myself out there again.

Only requisite was to avoid earlier abusive friendships/relationships and to keep an open mind about every opportunity that may come up.
Guess what? I havent felt that people are using me in months whereas I used to think about it several times a week and I have had no issues being taken advantage of and previous "friends" that didnt return my calls? those are now texting me asking if we can arrange a meeting...
So my question is: where are you meeting all this girls and have you thought about looking for people elsewhere?. Please note that I didnt say females, if you want to have some success on the dating game you need to work on your social skills and this involves being able to talk to people of either gender with ease.

This is really heartening, spongy, and is a perfect example of how taking an objective look at one's life can help change his mindset and outlook and eventually, his perceptions.

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22 May 2012, 9:26 am

MXH wrote:

spongy wrote:

I think multiple people who normally dont see eye to eye saying the same thing might make the point come across much more clearly

Ive been told that Im afraid of opening up a few times lately so Im trying to work on that sort of thing from time to time, sorry if it bothers you.
Glad to see that you were able to summarize my post though
Thanks mv

Ldub20Owl316
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22 May 2012, 6:24 pm

Do most people that've posted here think that the people the OP was talking about (men that mock the intelligence of others and are rude, inconsiderate, self-centered, condescending, conceited, hypocritical, and egotistical--in other words, CAVEMEN) are good pickup artists (and better ones than us Aspie men)? If so, we live in a sad world!

JanuaryMan
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22 May 2012, 6:27 pm

A pick up artist doesnt equate to relationship artist.
Tricking women into liking you is like tricking a loan company to get into bed with you. You get the short term benefits and the long term consequences - your reputation gets passed around as negative, and others will refuse to give you credit of any kind.

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22 May 2012, 8:28 pm

Ldub20Owl316 wrote:

Being autistic isn't an antidote to any of those negative qualities. Those aren't two separate and distinct categories.
I don't believe it's possible to be good and be a pua, more gross to me. But that's a personal opinion.
And if "cavemen" were having more casual sex, I don't see why that would make the world sad. Dating isn't a meritocracy.

Interesting metaphor JanuaryMan. (well I guess it's a simile, idk anymore)

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MrBackward
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22 May 2012, 8:32 pm

Nice guys dont finish last, nice guys who dont act fast enough or not at all do. "Act" is taken to represent something that is done to advance the relationship beyond that of a simple friendship. That has at least been my experience.

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22 May 2012, 11:22 pm

Finish what last? is what I wonder, it sounds like some sort of sloppy desperation to get the most girls or some crap.

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23 May 2012, 12:00 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Finish what last? is what I wonder, it sounds like some sort of sloppy desperation to get the most girls or some crap.

I done some research into the history of the laconic phrase: "Nice guys finish last".
Its a quotation from a 1930s baseball coach about baseball, its got sod all to do with relationship dynamics!

The phrase is more akin to the following quotation (taken out of my very own of copy of the Little Red Book :wink:

BiIl Shankly wrote:

If you are first you are first. If you are second, you are nothing

.o0(Knowing my lucky, I might hear John W. Henry say: "Top four and no 'Mickey Mouse' cup!")

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23 May 2012, 12:59 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

Finish what last? is what I wonder, it sounds like some sort of sloppy desperation to get the most girls or some crap.

I think many people see the term nice as a term for someone that doesn't take the initiative or someone that isn't assertive enough in certain situations. I think that lack of assertiveness can ruin certain opportunities such as seizing the moment when it comes to finding good career or romance prospects. However I think success is a subjective word and the quality of a relationship is more important than the quantity, If someone has a few good relationships as opposed to a few hundred one night stands, I think they will learn more about themselves and what they want in terms of compatibility in the long run..

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