What is the main reason why guys have to do the approaching?
The_Face_of_Boo
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So maybe the single men of the world should make a boycotting-approaching movement, soon enough women would have to play the 'men' role in approaching.
Hmm....intriguing, how can we spread the word and put this into action?
WHO's WITH ME?
*ROAR*
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The_Face_of_Boo
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MXH
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Because having Autism/Asperger Syndrome makes a lot of guys socially-awkward by nature, and since the overwhelming vast majority of girls are old-fashioned, do not approach guys or start conversations with them, ask them out, it hurts guys in this case way more than girls in this case
There are a few reasons why it is traditionally the responsibility of the male to initiate a relationship in our society, and so the answer to your question can be rather complex, however I will try to address it in fairly simple terms.
In most species, it is the male who does the initiating, so there is likely a strong biological component, and one aspect of this component is likely testosterone. Testosterone is a hormone of ambition and self entitlement. While we generally view those as negative qualities, with respect to the survival of a species, such attributes have proven to have their usefulness. We all descend from winners. Organisms that could acquire a sufficient amount of resources to successfully propagate their genes and see to it that their offspring were also in the position to do so. In lesser animals, the male is usually responsible for the former. Acquiring enough resources to propagate their genes, and testosterone enabled him to do this.
In humans, testosterone serves much the same purpose. It bestows some human males with the tendency to be slightly more possessive, territorial, self entitled, and ambitious, and opportunistic than their female counterparts. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Humans are an expensive species that require a lot of resources. Human children are born completely helpless and it takes a number of years of dedicated care until they are able to care for themselves. It takes an average of 12.5 years for humans to reach sexual maturity and humans do not stop maturing until the late 20's. As such, in the settings in which we evolved, a man who possessed a fair degree of the qualities listed above, was a man who could usually better provide for his family.
But as such, the majority of human societies have been somewhat patriarchal. Women, more often than not, were simultaneously viewed as something to be possessed by men, and something to be protected from other men. A woman approaching a man was considered bad in most of these societies for multiple reasons. I will list two of the primary ones.
1. He might see her approach as a solicitation or opportunity for casual sex, and he might actively attempt to obtain that from her even if she resists.
2. If a woman gets pregnant by a man who will not, or cannot fulfill his responsibilities, she is in a very compromised position having to both provide for and raise a child on her own.
As such, most societies have developed a concept of honor and modesty for women, and in many societies, even western ones, it was tradition for the man to approach the woman's father first, at least with respect to asking for her hand in marriage.
While our society is a modern one, we've inherited remnants of our cultural and biological history. There are still a good number of men who are going to hope a woman approaching them out of the blue will provide him with responsibility free casual sex, and there are still a good number of women who worry, at least at a subconscious level, that if a man does not have the courage to approach them, he might not have the courage or ambition to pursue other valuable resources, or protect her either physically or socially.
As such, many woman do indeed harbor the belief that if he is interested in an actual relationship, he will approach her, while many men harbor the belief that if she approaches him, she's interested in casual sex.
when you say testosterone is the hormone or ambition and self-entitlement, well the self-entitlement part, thats the one that society, people will deem negative because unfortuneately the way life, the world, society works is that we are never owed anything, never entitled to anything, well it seems that way more for guys as well.
Another thing i noticed too, is that guys, men are always expected to be more mature than women are in dating and relationships, as in, men are expected take responsibility for their lives and actions, make their life the way they want it, overall, life expects men to be independent all the time, to be on our own
I think perhaps you feel that men are always expected to be mature than women, take responsibility for their lives and actions, and be more independent. I don't perceive that society as a whole thinks that...at least not these days. You are perfectly within your right to refrain from dating women who are none of those things.
Y'know, you're probably right there. I'm not good at making calculations though
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WantToHaveALife
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So maybe the single men of the world should make a boycotting-approaching movement, soon enough women would have to play the 'men' role in approaching.
Hmm....intriguing, how can we spread the word and put this into action?
yeah it would be great if all single men of the world started to boycott this
So maybe the single men of the world should make a boycotting-approaching movement, soon enough women would have to play the 'men' role in approaching.
Hmm....intriguing, how can we spread the word and put this into action?
WHO's WITH ME?
*ROAR*
I'm with you. But it has to be men en masse. I can hardly see alpha players suddenly stop approaching women, because the current system is working for them.
If the system is working (from their point of view, not from our Aspie undateable POV), why change it?
I agree that men have to stop approaching women, and then maybe they'll get the message they have to do some of the work sometimes.
WantToHaveALife
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So maybe the single men of the world should make a boycotting-approaching movement, soon enough women would have to play the 'men' role in approaching.
Hmm....intriguing, how can we spread the word and put this into action?
WHO's WITH ME?
*ROAR*
I'm with you. But it has to be men en masse. I can hardly see alpha players suddenly stop approaching women, because the current system is working for them.
If the system is working (from their point of view, not from our Aspie undateable POV), why change it?
I agree that men have to stop approaching women, and then maybe they'll get the message they have to do some of the work sometimes.
I have felt for a very long time now and still do, that it is easier for a girl to get a boyfriend than it is for a guy to get a girlfriend, and I f****n' hate, despise, loathe, it gets annoying, when people use this as a counter-argument against my opinion, they are like "for every girl that has a boyfriend, the guy has a girlfriend" YES DUH!! !, but the guy had to do all or most of the work in order to make it happen, the girl just had to accept or decline, there is a difference between making it happen and allowing it to happen

WantToHaveALife
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i would never wear that
Sounds to me like this is a pity party.
I gave you the answers.
Women DO initiate. They give off subtle body language, which you can read up on. You have eyes. You have a brain. If you choose to not use it, you've got no one else to blame but yourself. This is the second time I'm posting it.
Specifically, Buss, D.M., "The Evolution Of Desire: Strategies Of Human Mating". Basic Books, 1995. - ISBN 978-0-465-02143-7 is a good start.
To oversimplify it, for >99.99% of our existence, we did not live as we do now. We roamed around in groups of 50-220 people, our family and friends, doing what we could to survive. In that situation, it is vital to be social or, people will die. Everyone needs to want to help everyone. So, there's a social fabric where things just worked out.
But, really, you're asking the wrong question here.
What you should be asking is this: I'm a man. Given that I have Asperger's, meaning I have no natural ability to "read" signs in the dating game, I give off screwy body language, and NT socialization is an issue, the dating game sucks. Why am I stuck with this burden when Aspie girls appear to be freed of it, not having to initiate anything?
And, the answer to that is: Girls do give off tons of signs, you just need to learn them. Once you learn them, you'll find out that girls initiate just as much as guys, they just do it in a very subtle way. Read up on body language, immediately. There are plenty of books out there.
yeah because i know i would not hesitate to approach girls more often if more of them smiled at me or looked at me from a distance, waved at me or just said a simple "Hi" from a distance, but i never get that
WantToHaveALife
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I gave you the answers.
Women DO initiate. They give off subtle body language, which you can read up on. You have eyes. You have a brain. If you choose to not use it, you've got no one else to blame but yourself. This is the second time I'm posting it.
Specifically, Buss, D.M., "The Evolution Of Desire: Strategies Of Human Mating". Basic Books, 1995. - ISBN 978-0-465-02143-7 is a good start.
To oversimplify it, for >99.99% of our existence, we did not live as we do now. We roamed around in groups of 50-220 people, our family and friends, doing what we could to survive. In that situation, it is vital to be social or, people will die. Everyone needs to want to help everyone. So, there's a social fabric where things just worked out.
But, really, you're asking the wrong question here.
What you should be asking is this: I'm a man. Given that I have Asperger's, meaning I have no natural ability to "read" signs in the dating game, I give off screwy body language, and NT socialization is an issue, the dating game sucks. Why am I stuck with this burden when Aspie girls appear to be freed of it, not having to initiate anything?
And, the answer to that is: Girls do give off tons of signs, you just need to learn them. Once you learn them, you'll find out that girls initiate just as much as guys, they just do it in a very subtle way. Read up on body language, immediately. There are plenty of books out there.
yeah because i know i would not hesitate to approach girls more often if more of them smiled at me or looked at me from a distance, waved at me or just said a simple "Hi" from a distance, but i never get that
well when you have Asperger's it's very difficult to notice them
Absolutely.
That's why I read maybe a dozen books on it, amounting to something like 1400 pages, countless speeches, stuff on youtube, and then trained myself to see it in real life. This wasn't overnight, but it was possible. Be aware, I could not read a single thing until I did research (I am in my 30s), just like any other person with Asperger's.
So, you simply treat it like it was any sort of intellectual subject, from History to Genetics. Maybe as a better example, look at it like you're studying birds. They're both visual things you see in front of you. And, like something academic, what would you do? You'd catalog, memorize, recognize, and repeat. Over and over again. You don't even need to see the body language shown directly to you, just like a bird doesn't need to land on your finger for you to recognize it. You can see it in a couple, standing to the side of you on a subway. Or, in a park. I'm not saying to be creepy. You just see it, register it for what you've learned and move on. It happens in a flash of a second, anyway. IMO, with enough work, you spot body language, like you do with a bird.
Have some faith. IMO, the only problem with us is not that we have Asperger's. It's that it's not registered enough (especially in the past) and that there's not a standard "toolkit" for us to work with the rest of the world. We've all got enough brainpower to learn most anything. Had I been given an "Asperger's Toolkit" when I was a kid, I would have had this figured out in a few months and my life would have been completely different. There's still time!

Yes it did work once already. Just a few months ago. She was hesitant to approach me because she had a kid, but then spotted me on a dating site and tried to contact me first. And was very eager to talk and meet me! Didn't work out in the end, but I dated her for a month. Another time I had a woman from the high school band boosters call me over to her food vendor tent at a festival and she & her friends took some pics and offered to help find a date for me!
I just found a nearby downtown fest next Saturday and will go there if I don't meet anyone sooner. I guess one with something simple like "single and looking" would be a lot better, but I really don't want a smoker or single mom with young kid(s) in my life and had to put that out there. I felt awkward as heck the first time I went out in that, but I'm more used to it now.
I gave you the answers.
Women DO initiate. They give off subtle body language, which you can read up on. You have eyes. You have a brain. If you choose to not use it, you've got no one else to blame but yourself. This is the second time I'm posting it.
i guess you are not on the spectrum then; one of the most common effects of autism is the inability to read body language, this means that, even *if* we see someone giving off subtle signals around us (and that's a big if), we wont be able to understand what they mean.
in my own experience, flirting signals are signs of agression to me. i intellectually know what flirting looks like, and i, nowadays, realise if have been flirted with after the moment has passed (usually when i'm home in bed), but in the moment itself there is too much going on around me that needs active attention that bodylanguage is read at a 'primal' level, not thinking, just responding on a reflex.
in that situation, eye-contact is a signal that an attack is coming, standing close to me means i'm in your way, light touch is a sign of dominance and ownership of the situation...
