Disappointed in women my age :(

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Not at all. Meeting men off the internet is risky; bringing a friend shows common sense.

It seems like the people in the last five posts have the idea that it was my first date with the Tinder girl, given the references to "creepiness" and "safety". Honest mistake, but...

This was a SECOND date. My first date with her was dinner at a Middle Eastern cafe. Just me and her, one-on-one. (As well as other diners eating there.) So it seems weird that she chose to bring a friend to "verify me" on a second date. Perhaps she had her own logic for doing so, that goes along with the rest of her quirkiness. I will very much give credit to the friend for leaving quickly and gracefully. I highly doubt she was afraid of me to the point of thinking about the police. I'm sure I came across as non-threatening to her as she did to me (while still producing enough of an alpha male vibe to trigger her interest).

Now, if she brings a friend on our third date, then I'll start worrying. Or just be friends, and leave it at that.

Maybe she brings five on the 3:rd date?

Seriously, you have nothing to worry about as long as it is girls, and they leave.

If she is bringing friends that's a good thing she is involving you in her social circle. But I would expect to be told before had!

Exactly, not to mention that she needs to put down some effort to get them to participate.



It's more fun when it is unexpected.

Also, she might be testing how well he can handle unexpected things.

Yes, that's why I didn't think it was a safety issue, and why I think bringing a friend is a sign that she is considering you seriously.

This is the fundamental problem with bringing friends for 'approval'.

Of course it is a good thing if a woman has good friends who can tell her if the new guy she's getting to know is a potential creep, but we are aspies, so of course we are more likely to come across and quirky and out-of-the-norm.

The friends of a woman can judge you for any criteria they see fit.

Slightly socially awkward? He must be a creep, you should avoid him, girl, keep a close eye on him. Maybe he's a murderous psychopath trying to put on an act and pretend to be normal but hasn't quite mastered it.

Dresses unfashionably? Clearly he doesn't care about his appearance.

Is unemployed (but looking)? Must be a lazy dole-bludger (Australian term for people sucking off of social security payments)

Consider yourself lucky the friend considers you a good guy.

It's hard enough to make a good first impression on your date, let alone their friends, let alone the friend they brought to the date by surprise without notification.

Those escorts really have helped with your social skills and confidence OP as I know of some other aspies that would have been f*cked simply because the woman relies far too much on the opinions of her bias friends and can't make a decision for herself.

I don't care how immoral of me it sounds, friends are just another tedious, time-consuming obstacle. I never have any interest whatsoever in meeting a woman's friends when I get to know her. It's HER I want to get to know, and this results in having to put on a superficial, polite escapade of getting to know these other people as well just to have access to her time.

Coincidentally, I try to like the girl's friends, but each and every time, I never do...

Every girl I've ever been attracted to tends to be the 'odd-man out'/unique person of their seemingly generic, clone-like friends.

I may be biased due to being attracted to the girl, but even when looking at it objectively or asking for friends on a second/third opinion, they say they can see it as well.

Then again, my views of relationships are unconventional as I'd rather not it be the 'combining of each other's lives' but rather something more independent.

I don't want a relationship that 'molds' our two lives into one but rather two individual lives together based on mutual love for one another.

I would be just as fine if she never wanted to meet my friends. If anything, I fear she will judge me negatively for my friends/family as I am the odd-man out among them. I come from a lower-middle class background and the family is generally rough-mannered, unhygienic, unemployed high school dropouts suffering from substance abuse.

People tend to judge you on what your family or friends are like as they think they are an influence on you when this isn't always the case.

I do not judge a woman at all on her family or friends and optimistically hope if I dislike her friends or family she is the odd-one out.

In short, it goes both ways, or at least that's what I'm looking for. I prefer a relationship be kept between the two individuals as much as possible.

I also don't like it when the friends/family of each member of the couple are so congratulatory and constantly bombarding the couple with information on their relationship.

Every time I've gotten a girlfriend my friend's would not have found out if neither of us told them (and funny enough, my first girlfriend our entire friend group didn't know. They just knew she wasn't single and there was gossip we liked each other).

Of course, I understand the reason people, not just women, may evoke these 'obstacles' is for their own safety and to filter out the 'bad' guys/creeps, but sometimes it filters out good guys too who were simply mistaken as something else (not saying I'm a 'good guy', just speaking on behalf of those that are), but I just find it better for an individual to make these types of decisions for themselves, in which most do, but some put too much weight into the opinions of others to make the choices that they feel may actually be right for them.

Like I said any decent man or woman can be judged harshly by the friends for any criteria they see fit, - they may even lie about just why they don't like them, e.g. saying they are a creep when they may just be ugly.

"I really like this person, but all of my friends don't because they're employed and he's on disability. What should I do?"

Nah, I'll have to disagree with you here. ND women quite often will hang out with other NDs, or at least with females that understand these quirks, and if the girl you like has some friends, you want their approval, and the sooner the better.

The scenarios above appears to be from NTs, and you will not escape them even if you can date the girl you like alone. Eventually, you will need to socialize with them, and their attitudes will not improve over time. It's better to learn quickly that the girl has nasty friends than when you already have strong feelings for her, because it is likely that her nasty friends will talk to her behind your back, causing trouble in your relationship.



I don't think that is the same thing. What you are talking about is in a relationship, but the OP is only dating. I'd agree that a partner should not make the relationship official to everybody she knows, but having friends checking you out is something that happens during courtship, and it will only be her close friends that are involved in that.

Well that's more me not that keep on surprises but then again I would just go with the flow if there was a horde of them I would probably struggle though!

I suppose there is another advantage, might not work with her but one of her friends might be interested

I'd be very careful about that. It might be a trap. One of her friends may try to seduce you, and if you go for it, you'd lost the game with all of them. I've experienced that, but I didn't take the bait.

Oh I wasn't about when your seeing her if you had decided to call it quits and still got on or something. And year defiantly not while seeing her it will most likely be a trap

You can say that again! Escorts gave me tremendous amounts of confidence needed to plow through most romantic interactions. Which I'm sure is helping me with this girl. This disproves the "haters" who think escorts are an obstacle to romantic relationships.

You also have to remember that no person is an island. They have pre-existing people in their lives. You have friends too, probably. You don't have to mesh yours and your girlfriend's lives together, but you do have to get along with people in hers. They were around long before you were, so it's fair that they take priority. Heck, you remember my post about how my friends pretty much stopped going anywhere with me, and only stay home or do dinner parties with their girlfriends. So, having been the third/fifth/seventh wheel, I had the empathy to make my date's friend feel included. But even then, I thought her bringing a friend on a second date was really odd.

Either way, I feel exponentially safer with this girl than I do with women my age. I know I can enjoy my time with her, without worrying about her taking over my life, getting in the way of my routines and interests, and pressuring me into settling down and getting "serious", just because her biological clock in ticking. Because at her age, there isn't much of a biological clock to begin with.

OK, but in that case I would not see her anymore.

"You have friends too, probably."

Yeah, but they live far away enough to the point it would be difficult to introduce them anyway. It especially makes me uncomfortable if a girlfriend wants me to meet her friends and then wants to meet mine.

Yeah, our differences in age certainly make a diffeence though.

I am use to high school-aged girls, and in high school most everyone seems to care significantly about what their peers think of them and may have a much stronger effect on who they associate themselves with (date) than perhaps older adulthood.

Even in the early 20s this can still be a common attitude.

I admit what I say sounds immoral. I believe I may sound like a creep myself, seeing 'friends' and the parents of a girl I want to get to know as 'obstacles', which implies they are standing in my way from getting to her.

But I don't mean to. Sometimes, this is simply true, especially in high school.

It is the 'bad' people that ruin things for the 'good' people. Fathers and mothers will understandably be over-protective of their daughters for obvious reasons due to many teenage boys being little rats, but this over-protective attitude may occasionally scare off the 'good' boys too, just because he may not fit the mold of what the father or mother may want him to be.

Adult women learn to be well-guarded against the cat-callers and creeps they encounter but this can also scare-off decent men who would have taken rejection politely and apologized for bothering her.

I think it's common for us as aspies to not like to deal with all the courtship and B.S. of dating and just skip to the important parts - I want to get to know you, you want to get to know me, why over-complicate things? If you're really that unsure about me, either get to know me further or just end things because you couldn't make-up your mind.

I just tend to rely more on my own opinion regarding dating. I may ask for second or third opinions but they have no influence over me.

With her friends/family, I get along with them just fine and even if I don't like them I can be polite. I'd have no issue if she secrelty hated mine as well but put on a show. Whatever.

It's just when they rely too much on the opinion of other's rather than thinking for themselves. This is true for men or women. Like I said a relationship is an individual thing, in the end it is only up to you.

I'm happy for you that things seem to be working out. I obviously wouldn't like it if I was forced to meet her friends and otherwise join her life that way, especially so early (I'd honestly be fine without meeting her friends/family in the relationship, it's just during dating/getting to know her I see it as an obstacle to overcome), but I would see the positives in the fact she has brought a friend to meet you.

I can't say I'd take it just as well. I'd put on my best act to come across as good as possible, but in past experiences I must have either made a bad impression or people simply don't like me as every-time I meet the friends of a girl I'm interested in they tend to find me annoying and unlikable.

The only reason I'd want to meet her friends is to possibly expand my (non-existant) social network, but i have little interest in that either.

I'm just not big I guess on getting to know people as groups but just individually (e.g. I make a new friend, but if they are part of a group of friends I can't give two sh*ts about meeting any of them except perhaps meeting one or two of the group individually).

I'm amazing at one-on-one communication but suck at fitting into groups or being non-anxious. Groups are intimidating and actually kind of make the people in it feel more anonymous and invisible to me. I can't get to know individuals in a group setting unless me and someone in the group MAKE it an individual, two-person thing.

Underneath all the social conventions and unwritten rules that have become second nature to me, I agree with you.

However, this is the reality we have, and you know what NTs say: if you can't beat them, join them. So I learned to leverage concepts like alpha males, social proofing, etc.---the ones intended to prevent me from getting anywhere near women---against the very people who came up with them. Doesn't work as well as I like, but well enough.

I suppose that's the nice part about 30-something women. They tend to think more independently. And like I already said: when I was 22, I wanted to fast-forward through my 20's, so I could enjoy the maturity and wisdom that many 30-something women have. Not to mention I won't have to "get past" her father, who would have no problem pointing a gun at my genitals. Even more so: a sizeable number of 30-something women already lost one or both parents.

But now, all I find is women who want to stay home all the time and obsessed with having kids. (At least among my friends' girlfriends. Women in my social groups are less severely like that.) So this is where my disappointment comes from, and causes me to seek solace among 20-something women, the very demographic I couldn't stand 10 years ago.

I wish people would just dispense with the notion of "alpha/beta/omega/whatever" males. It's a bunch of hooey.