Virginity

Page 7 of 15 [ 225 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 15 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

BlueMax
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,285

12 Jul 2012, 2:48 am

indyadam wrote:

Agreed, that is something i do like about arguments/discussions with others with AS and the like. Unless we are having a break down. We can usually keep our emotions in check and dont let it get personal.

Amen, brutha! We may talk on here and discuss things in order to reach a conclusion of some kind... it's nice to have differing opinions without being nasty about it... or at least apologizing if we occasionally go overboard.

bizboy1
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 945
Location: California, USA

12 Jul 2012, 2:49 am

Shatbat wrote:

Don't we objectify everyone? I once read an essay about how we saw the waiter as an object who brought our food, the janitor as an object who cleaned everything, the cashier as an object being there to receive our money...

It ended up being an argument against prostitution, interestingly enough. But there are many forms of objectification, outside that one. Which makes me wonder now, under an objectification argument, why aren't strippers disallowed? (and I repeat myself, only under an objectification argument. There sure are differences also worth discussing when looking at it from other angles, but strippers against prostitutes looks right now for me as an interesting comparison.

Oh, and a lil reminder. Argumentation is argumentation, and shouldn't be taken personal

. I just enjoy a good discussion, especially when my ideas are clear enough I can make some points, but unclear enough I need external input to make my thoughts on the issue clearer. For all I know I could end up being against prostitution :lol:

EDIT: Huh... I just remembered how theorizing works much better in an ideal world than in the real one, with all other kind of variables. Still, I like having a basic framework to organize more specific cases around,

Good point. Liberals and feminists will make the same weak arguments as prostitution. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if many strippers did paid sex on the side too.

_________________
INTJ

indyadam
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 8 Jul 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 49
Location: Indiana

12 Jul 2012, 2:54 am

actually i think its the religious conservatives that have a problem with strippers and prostitutes. Its "immoral"

To give some crediblity to what ive been saying. not that this makes me an expert, but my degrees are in History focused on politics.Political Science focused on international policy and Sociology focused on women's studies. So i can go on this subect ALL DAY lol

BrenJB
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

12 Jul 2012, 8:49 am

bizboy1 wrote:

In summarizing the recent above posts, yes, currently prostitution is a catastrophe. That's because we have in place failed policy, the result of politicians not understanding basic economics.
Under the current frame of thought, we are going to have the ugliness of what we call prostitution today. You have women who have no skills to get a job besides illegal prostitution; nothing, besides providing sex. So we have this underground economy that is run by pimps and criminals. It is dangerous.
Currently, there are no regulations in place to help prevent transmission of STDS, no minimum wage or salary, and no benefits. And the most important thing is lack of competition. Competition is stronger than any government regulation and is the great equalizer.
Legalize prostitution and get rid of the ugliness of it. Help women who will use there body anyways, no matter what. I really don't see why prostitution couldn't be a respectable profession or at least something that isn't very controversial. Someday I hope to live in a society that wouldn't discriminate on how someone chooses to earn a living.
Give them decent work hours, give them competitive wages, bring in safety supplies, give them good working conditions....and the f***ing list goes on.

And we are forgetting the customer too. Let the customer feel safe and confident in his choice. Stop arguing about whether you think prostitution should be legalized or not based on women rights. It doesn't make sense. It's not a gender issue. The same thing applies for male prostitution.

It's fascinating to ponder that someday prostitutes could be given the same rights as other professions. Where businesses, entrepreneurs create jobs, happy customers, and most importantly safe and happy employees.

Don't count on government or democracy to get you there.

But what you are missing here is men and women ARE different! That is why there are so few male prostitutes and most of the male prostitutes service the gay community.

Women, the vast majority, need to feel something emotionally to ENJOY sex. Men just want to have an orgasm and if it's alive and breathing (sometimes that isn't even a requirement) then they can obtain their goal. Might it be even ore pleasurable or meaningful with a loved one? Sure. But most men seem to have no problem with casual sex...the emotional bond isn't as necessary for them.

I don't care how safe, legal, the rate of pay or how well the "johns" treat the women prostitutes, it is going to be a job and not one they after enjoying. When she tells you you are awesome and she had the big O she will be lying and should when an Oscar. No emotion...no joy.

Is there the rare woman that this doesn't apply to? Sure! But not even close enough to fill the job openings for prostitutes that it would take to keep up with the male population. lol

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

12 Jul 2012, 9:51 am

BrenJB wrote:

But what you are missing here is men and women ARE different! That is why there are so few male prostitutes and most of the male prostitutes service the gay community.

The reason for that isn't really a difference in emotions. It's because men have more trouble getting laid. If any woman under the age of 50 that I ever met went out, she could get laid. I can't, not for the life of me. That's why I'm considering hiring a prostitute in a few years. I'm not going to pass 30 a virgin. It's not even practice - I'm not counting on getting any kind of relationship at any point in my life, because I'm profoundly unattractive. It's just that I want to get laid. Know what it's like.

BrenJB wrote:

I don't care how safe, legal, the rate of pay or how well the "johns" treat the women prostitutes, it is going to be a job and not one they after enjoying. When she tells you you are awesome and she had the big O she will be lying and should when an Oscar. No emotion...no joy.

Thing is, most people won't care. It's a contract, and if it's voluntary, that's fine. You pay her an amount of money, and she provides services. She doesn't have to enjoy it - most people don't really enjoy their jobs, but jobs make money, and prostitution is a job. The guy who fixed the hot water yesterday probably doesn't enjoy spending his days plucking hair balls out of swimming pools and fixing dirty pipes that leak hot water - but he's paid for that.

BrenJB wrote:

Is there the rare woman that this doesn't apply to? Sure! But not even close enough to fill the job openings for prostitutes that it would take to keep up with the male population. lol

Perhaps that's a symptom of a larger problem.

BrenJB
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

12 Jul 2012, 11:16 am

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

BrenJB wrote:

But what you are missing here is men and women ARE different! That is why there are so few male prostitutes and most of the male prostitutes service the gay community.

BrenJB wrote:

Is there the rare woman that this doesn't apply to? Sure! But not even close enough to fill the job openings for prostitutes that it would take to keep up with the male population. lol

Perhaps that's a symptom of a larger problem.

While women may be able to get "laid" easier it's not what we are looking for. It's rare that a woman just wants to go out and "get laid"! They want to be made love to. They want emotion...LOVE.

No, she doesn't have to enjoy it but, if I am correct, it was stated that the prostitutes enjoy there "job"

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

12 Jul 2012, 11:22 am

BrenJB wrote:

While women may be able to get "laid" easier it's not what we are looking for. It's rare that a woman just wants to go out and "get laid"! They want to be made love to. They want emotion...LOVE.

I can have neither. That's even more of a problem. Women aren't sexually attracted to me, and they're not emotionally attracted to me.

BrenJB wrote:

No, she doesn't have to enjoy it but, if I am correct, it was stated that the prostitutes enjoy there "job"

I didn't read that. Regardless, I have no moral objection whatsoever to prostitution. In fact, from a personal perspective, it would make no sense to have any objection to prostitution. I'm unattractive, and I'm a guy, so prostitution is pretty much the only option I have to get laid apart from rape.

JanuaryMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,359

12 Jul 2012, 11:30 am

Some things:
***Not every prostitute has the luxury of volunteering. Some are slaves, abductees, manipulated and so forth. Some might enjoy their job, some never will and even after it's all over may never want sex again due to severe trauma.
***Some people will never understand what making love is as for that and sex to happen intercourse is involved and some people view it as intercourse only.
***Because everything is okay for us the individual, doesn't mean everything is necessarily okay for other people around us. A common theme in WP "I'm ok so what's the problem?" "This doesn't affect me, so screw them!".
***Without wanting to bash anyone with rhetoric - why do some of the larger opinions about sex come from those with no experience? There is a huge difference trying to argue points across about something from experience than just google and school studies.

BrenJB
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

12 Jul 2012, 11:53 am

JanuaryMan wrote:

I agree with everything you said but just because I haven't had sex that doesn't equate to lack of experience. I could have had sex a number of times; I chose not too because I want that emotional bond when I do choose to. So making the decision to have or not to have sex is, in my opinion, experience to a degree. I certainly know I could never have a one night stand or prostitute myself and enjoy sex.

Last edited by BrenJB on 12 Jul 2012, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

12 Jul 2012, 11:55 am

JanuaryMan wrote:

***Not every prostitute has the luxury of volunteering. Some are slaves, abductees, manipulated and so forth. Some might enjoy their job, some never will and even after it's all over may never want sex again due to severe trauma.

There are methods of determining that. I've heard about them, and I presume myself capable of using those methods. If they don't want sex again due to severe trauma, that's easy to understand. Railway workers often don't even use trains for general travel anymore after they retire. But they've served the community well, and they've made money.

JanuaryMan wrote:

***Some people will never understand what making love is as for that and sex to happen intercourse is involved and some people view it as intercourse only.

For me, sex will just be intercourse, and that's only if I pay.

JanuaryMan wrote:

***Because everything is okay for us the individual, doesn't mean everything is necessarily okay for other people around us. A common theme in WP "I'm ok so what's the problem?" "This doesn't affect me, so screw them!".

Sometimes, you need a healthy dose of self-preservation. Not everything is alright for me, but I'm not doing that badly. Furthermore, if women choose to be prostitutes, I support their choice. If they choose to sell sexual services, that's fine. Their choice.

JanuaryMan wrote:

***Without wanting to bash anyone with rhetoric - why do some of the larger opinions about sex come from those with no experience? There is a huge difference trying to argue points across about something from experience than just google and school studies.

Talkin' bout rhetoric? Hey, if studies say something is true, it's worth much more than your luck and resulting experience.

Zinia
Deinonychus

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 344

12 Jul 2012, 12:08 pm

I think that's a good point about many sex workers being forced into the profession.

I've actually known people who were prostitutes, and I have been solicited by men before.

One of them was a heroine addict who needed her fix...I think you could say she has some kind of psychological problem going on. The other was a stripper who did do prostitution on the side--she looked at it as a business transaction, and was able to buy a house and support her daughter by herself with the money.

When I ran away from home as a teenager, I was solicited by men for prostitution. I never did it, even though (and this makes me really angry, to tell you the truth) I would have made more money doing prostitution than ANY other job I have ever done--including a job that I consider infinitesimally more important to society, which is preschool teaching.

And also, I will probably always think of johns as icky because I thought the people who solicited me were icky-not because of how they looked--but because of what they were trying to do...and what kind of value that showed that they had for me, as a human being. And even though I am biased, I bet there are a lot of women who would see a man's past experience with a prostitute as a negative.

As much as I'm on the fence about prostitution being legalized, I find it offensive to consider that prostitution should be the solution for the income disparity between men and women, and the high number of single mothers in poverty and homelessness.

The point for the OP is, why would you expect a woman who views her sexuality as a tool for economic survival to be able to teach you how to please a woman who views her sexuality as a means for emotional intimacy (as many women who are not prostitutes do)? And taking January Man's comment into account, there is no way that, even inadvertently, raping a victim of sex trafficking is going to teach you to please a woman.

Also--prostitutes' job is not to pleasure themselves, but johns. That's not a good lesson for how to be a good lover unless your idea of being a good lover is to pleasure yourself.

JanuaryMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,359

12 Jul 2012, 12:21 pm

BrenJB wrote:

JanuaryMan wrote:

Good to know, and that's probably for the best. They did me no favours at a younger age. Moving on!:

I guess I was a wee bit unclear in what I meant. There are a lot of people out there with more social experience that adapt better to sex (inc. virgins) opposed to a lot of immature folks out there who think they're streetwise or and grown up because they had sex a few times. So I retract what I said, and would definitely think "life experience" is more key than actual sexual experience. Though I must say I know if I was a pilot, and I came to a forum seeing someone talk a lot about flying planes and what pilots do when they have no license and their teacher was Google I'd probably frown and pull weird faces in disbelief.

Zinia wrote:

The point for the OP is, why would you expect a woman who views her sexuality as a tool for economic survival to be able to teach you how to please a woman who views her sexuality as a means for emotional intimacy (as many women who are not prostitutes do)?

Exactly. I wouldn't expect someone on Wall Street to teach a long time saver the value of money.

Zinia
Deinonychus

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 344

12 Jul 2012, 12:40 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:

Exactly. I wouldn't expect someone on Wall Street to teach a long time saver the value of money.

Hmmm. I'll have to think about this.

Edit: I also think that both personal experience and book learning are valuable. But it's even more value to be able to acknowledge when you don't know something--or everything.

Edit again: To the edit of the post below...and to seeing how confusing sending messages through edits can be:

Last edited by Zinia on 12 Jul 2012, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JanuaryMan
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 1 Jan 2012
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,359

12 Jul 2012, 12:42 pm

Zinia wrote:

JanuaryMan wrote:

Exactly. I wouldn't expect someone on Wall Street to teach a long time saver the value of money.

Hmmm. I'll have to think about this.

I say that because both acquire wealth through different means and have a different view on what that means to them and how it has shaped their life.
And no, I'm pretty positive being a prostitute to men is more stressful than being a prostitute to the financial system.

Edit: Yes. to your edit. :lol:

HisDivineMajesty
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,364
Location: Planet Earth

12 Jul 2012, 12:48 pm

Why should a prostitute teach anything? It's just a simple private contract - a sexual service for money.

bizboy1
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 945
Location: California, USA

12 Jul 2012, 1:16 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

Why should a prostitute teach anything? It's just a simple private contract - a sexual service for money.

Right. And a woman who wants to enter this contract is then told by society that she can't because it is not good for her and society knows better. That's why I'm not a liberal. Liberals take other peoples rights away because they think they know better.

_________________
INTJ

Page 7 of 15 [ 225 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 15 Next

Jump to:

Virginity Post Reply New Topic

Virginity