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ShamelessGit
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22 Oct 2012, 9:07 pm

I always thought it was strange that men were expected to initiate things because in general they are less picky, so it it seems like there would be less rejection and women would get with the guy she really wanted more often, but I just thought of something recently that might explain why men have to start everything.

Recently a pretty girl I didn't know kept looking over at me during class, so I figured I'd sit next to where she usually sits next class so that we could chat. Usually when I do this sort of thing girls just sit there and let me start talking to them, but this girl came right up to me and introduced herself, and I wasn't prepared for it (I was distracted by a nerdy thing), so it was kind of awkward at first, but instead of being repelled by the awkwardness like most girls she just pushed through it and in a few minutes we had a very nice conversation. I thought she was very nice and I was impressed by her forwardness, but I always imagined having a nerdy girlfriend, and she was an art history major (I consider all majors without a mathematical basis to basically be majors in BS), and although she was nice I had difficulty imagining having sustained conversations with her, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to try to push things towards a relationship or not. I was torn between my desire for physical intimacy and not wanting to get a girl attached to me that I knew from the start that I would dump at some point. I was also thinking that maybe if I just gave her a chance that maybe I would like her better. I am not sure how many guys in my situation would choose to let the girl know that he didn't really like her that much, or even if very many of them would think twice about this sort of dilemma. I think guys tend to think that any relationship is better than none, but girls in general don't seem to think that way, otherwise it would not be so difficult to get a girlfriend. So it could be guys have to initiate things because when they do, at least the girl knows that the guy thinks that she is the most attractive girl of the pool he thinks he has a chance with, whereas if the girl initiates something, the guy's reaction probably can't tell her anything about how serious he is. It probably also has some sort of evolutionary thing where the girls have to try to get the guys to compete over them so that they get the best mate or something like that.

And by the way, I think I resolved my dilemma on accident by doing things like forgetting the girl's name next class and not being able to sustain the conversation like I did last time.

Another thing I thought was kind of odd about this girl was that in the course of our first conversation, she mentioned that she had a boyfriend. Is that not weird to give random guys you don't know that much attention when you already have a partner? I don't think I'd be very happy if I had a girlfriend who did stuff like that, and also, hitting on a girl who already has a boyfriend sounds like drama, which I abhor.



lostintime
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22 Oct 2012, 9:22 pm

ShamelessGit wrote:
I always thought it was strange that men were expected to initiate things because in general they are less picky, so it it seems like there would be less rejection and women would get with the guy she really wanted more often, but I just thought of something recently that might explain why men have to start everything.

Recently a pretty girl I didn't know kept looking over at me during class, so I figured I'd sit next to where she usually sits next class so that we could chat. Usually when I do this sort of thing girls just sit there and let me start talking to them, but this girl came right up to me and introduced herself, and I wasn't prepared for it (I was distracted by a nerdy thing), so it was kind of awkward at first, but instead of being repelled by the awkwardness like most girls she just pushed through it and in a few minutes we had a very nice conversation. I thought she was very nice and I was impressed by her forwardness, but I always imagined having a nerdy girlfriend, and she was an art history major (I consider all majors without a mathematical basis to basically be majors in BS), and although she was nice I had difficulty imagining having sustained conversations with her, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to try to push things towards a relationship or not. I was torn between my desire for physical intimacy and not wanting to get a girl attached to me that I knew from the start that I would dump at some point. I was also thinking that maybe if I just gave her a chance that maybe I would like her better. I am not sure how many guys in my situation would choose to let the girl know that he didn't really like her that much, or even if very many of them would think twice about this sort of dilemma. I think guys tend to think that any relationship is better than none, but girls in general don't seem to think that way, otherwise it would not be so difficult to get a girlfriend. So it could be guys have to initiate things because when they do, at least the girl knows that the guy thinks that she is the most attractive girl of the pool he thinks he has a chance with, whereas if the girl initiates something, the guy's reaction probably can't tell her anything about how serious he is. It probably also has some sort of evolutionary thing where the girls have to try to get the guys to compete over them so that they get the best mate or something like that.

And by the way, I think I resolved my dilemma on accident by doing things like forgetting the girl's name next class and not being able to sustain the conversation like I did last time.

Another thing I thought was kind of odd about this girl was that in the course of our first conversation, she mentioned that she had a boyfriend. Is that not weird to give random guys you don't know that much attention when you already have a partner? I don't think I'd be very happy if I had a girlfriend who did stuff like that, and also, hitting on a girl who already has a boyfriend sounds like drama, which I abhor.


First of all I'd steer clear of this girl if she has a boyfriend. You're just looking for drama if you get together with her.

I've been known to find any reason not to persue a girl. Mostly I think it's out of fear that they may think I'm weird or something. I'm going through this problem now with a girl. I think you should have just gone for it if she didn't have a bf. You could have went out on a date with her and seen where it went. Maybe you'd like her and maybe you wouldn't. No harm done.



auntblabby
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23 Oct 2012, 12:26 am

women never had to do anything but just sit back and look good [and choose a man], for the simple reason that they are stuck with the results of their choice for life.



WantToHaveALife
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23 Oct 2012, 3:17 pm

ShamelessGit wrote:
I always thought it was strange that men were expected to initiate things because in general they are less picky, so it it seems like there would be less rejection and women would get with the guy she really wanted more often, but I just thought of something recently that might explain why men have to start everything.

Recently a pretty girl I didn't know kept looking over at me during class, so I figured I'd sit next to where she usually sits next class so that we could chat. Usually when I do this sort of thing girls just sit there and let me start talking to them, but this girl came right up to me and introduced herself, and I wasn't prepared for it (I was distracted by a nerdy thing), so it was kind of awkward at first, but instead of being repelled by the awkwardness like most girls she just pushed through it and in a few minutes we had a very nice conversation. I thought she was very nice and I was impressed by her forwardness, but I always imagined having a nerdy girlfriend, and she was an art history major (I consider all majors without a mathematical basis to basically be majors in BS), and although she was nice I had difficulty imagining having sustained conversations with her, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to try to push things towards a relationship or not. I was torn between my desire for physical intimacy and not wanting to get a girl attached to me that I knew from the start that I would dump at some point. I was also thinking that maybe if I just gave her a chance that maybe I would like her better. I am not sure how many guys in my situation would choose to let the girl know that he didn't really like her that much, or even if very many of them would think twice about this sort of dilemma. I think guys tend to think that any relationship is better than none, but girls in general don't seem to think that way, otherwise it would not be so difficult to get a girlfriend. So it could be guys have to initiate things because when they do, at least the girl knows that the guy thinks that she is the most attractive girl of the pool he thinks he has a chance with, whereas if the girl initiates something, the guy's reaction probably can't tell her anything about how serious he is. It probably also has some sort of evolutionary thing where the girls have to try to get the guys to compete over them so that they get the best mate or something like that.

And by the way, I think I resolved my dilemma on accident by doing things like forgetting the girl's name next class and not being able to sustain the conversation like I did last time.

Another thing I thought was kind of odd about this girl was that in the course of our first conversation, she mentioned that she had a boyfriend. Is that not weird to give random guys you don't know that much attention when you already have a partner? I don't think I'd be very happy if I had a girlfriend who did stuff like that, and also, hitting on a girl who already has a boyfriend sounds like drama, which I abhor.


I also hate, despise, loathe on how too many women will stubbornly insist, argue by saying "men are hunters, blah blah blah", they use that as the excuse as for why men have to do the initiating, approaching



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23 Oct 2012, 4:03 pm

WantToHaveALife wrote:
[I also hate, despise, loathe on how too many women will stubbornly insist, argue by saying "men are hunters, blah blah blah", they use that as the excuse as for why men have to do the initiating, approaching


And yet a lot of men really do see themselves as the hunters and are fine with this setup. They want to be the ones who pursue. This presents a problem for you. This is not a problem created for you by women. It's a problem created for you by far more aggressive men. They are not about to give up being the pursuers because they like it that way. You may see this as a burden but lots of men see it as a thrill (such as a man you angrily quoted in another thread). And those men are your competition and they are not going to sit by passively to see if women will come up to them. As long as they outnumber the more passive men, this social setup will continue.

If you can somehow convince them to stop aggressively pursuing women, then women will start being the ones who initiate and approach. But I sincerely doubt you will be able to convince them to give up something they enjoy so that they will be less competition for you.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:13 pm

And women let men have all the fun because "it's just the way it is". What about women who want to chase men?? It's not fair.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:14 pm

smudge wrote:
And women let men have all the fun because "it's just the way it is". What about women who want to chase men?? It's not fair.


what isnt fair? its not as if women dont have the option of chasing men.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:21 pm

MXH wrote:
smudge wrote:
And women let men have all the fun because "it's just the way it is". What about women who want to chase men?? It's not fair.


what isnt fair? its not as if women dont have the option of chasing men.


True. And some women do boldly ask men out because that's what they want to do. They run the risk of being perceived as trampy (depending on the man) but take the risk anyway.

What if this became more common? It would not be all unicorns and rainbows since then un-pursued men would find themselves in the position of not being able to blame "social rules" for their lack of success.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:25 pm

Janissy wrote:
MXH wrote:
smudge wrote:
And women let men have all the fun because "it's just the way it is". What about women who want to chase men?? It's not fair.


what isnt fair? its not as if women dont have the option of chasing men.


True. And some women do boldly ask men out because that's what they want to do. They run the risk of being perceived as trampy (depending on the man) but take the risk anyway.

What if this became more common? It would not be all unicorns and rainbows since then un-pursued men would find themselves in the position of not being able to blame "social rules" for their lack of success.


yep, i wish it would happen specifically for that reason. To stop hearing people playing the victim game



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23 Oct 2012, 4:30 pm

MXH and Jannisy - true. And, I do ask men out. I'd have never had a relationship otherwise (in the past I never noticed when someone showed any interest).

The problem is half the time they get scared off. I'm not sure how much of it is me...how much is them...and how much of it is that rule (I guess that's another way of saying it's them).

Interestingly my sister always pursues men too. I only just found this out the other day. It was only in recent years that I realised there was a rule that men should only chase. I just think as Jannisy said, that women are worried they'll be looked at in the wrong way. I guess they're not able to move on like I can, plus I've never been known to fit in with a crowd.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:40 pm

smudge wrote:
MXH and Jannisy - true. And, I do ask men out. I'd have never had a relationship otherwise (in the past I never noticed when someone showed any interest).

The problem is half the time they get scared off. I'm not sure how much of it is me...how much is them...and how much of it is that rule (I guess that's another way of saying it's them).

Interestingly my sister always pursues men too. I only just found this out the other day. It was only in recent years that I realised there was a rule that men should only chase. I just think as Jannisy said, that women are worried they'll be looked at in the wrong way. I guess they're not able to move on like I can, plus I've never been known to fit in with a crowd.


It's nothing with the rule. It's how things are for someone pursuing. It's what happens to all men. It's not that they're scared of you or found it bad, they just weren't into you. Just like when a girl rejects a guy she's not into.



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23 Oct 2012, 4:49 pm

smudge wrote:
The problem is half the time they get scared off. I'm not sure how much of it is me...how much is them...and how much of it is that rule (I guess that's another way of saying it's them)..


Only half the time? Those are extremely good odds compared to the averages I've heard ;).



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23 Oct 2012, 4:50 pm

MXH wrote:
smudge wrote:
MXH and Jannisy - true. And, I do ask men out. I'd have never had a relationship otherwise (in the past I never noticed when someone showed any interest).

The problem is half the time they get scared off. I'm not sure how much of it is me...how much is them...and how much of it is that rule (I guess that's another way of saying it's them).

Interestingly my sister always pursues men too. I only just found this out the other day. It was only in recent years that I realised there was a rule that men should only chase. I just think as Jannisy said, that women are worried they'll be looked at in the wrong way. I guess they're not able to move on like I can, plus I've never been known to fit in with a crowd.


It's nothing with the rule. It's how things are for someone pursuing. It's what happens to all men. It's not that they're scared of you or found it bad, they just weren't into you. Just like when a girl rejects a guy she's not into.


Good point, although I forgot to mention that these men were definitely interested in me at first. A couple of them even hinted at me trying to get me to pursue them. I'm not sure if they hinted badly because they wanted to speed up the chase (disrespect?) or because IRL around a big group of people in class I'm dead quiet and anxiety makes me appear slow (therefore I need bigger hints?).

Just to explain to the people off here who I've met IRL - sometimes I get bouts of confidence and I'm chatty. Otherwise I'm very shy. Depends on my state of mind. :?



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23 Oct 2012, 4:55 pm

ShamelessGit wrote:
Another thing I thought was kind of odd about this girl was that in the course of our first conversation, she mentioned that she had a boyfriend. Is that not weird to give random guys you don't know that much attention when you already have a partner?

Good question. A very similar situation occured to me about a year ago.
My theory says that many girls simply perceive me as asexual.



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24 Oct 2012, 2:19 am

ShamelessGit wrote:
I always thought it was strange that men were expected to initiate things because in general they are less picky, so it it seems like there would be less rejection and women would get with the guy she really wanted more often, but I just thought of something recently that might explain why men have to start everything.

Recently a pretty girl I didn't know kept looking over at me during class, so I figured I'd sit next to where she usually sits next class so that we could chat. Usually when I do this sort of thing girls just sit there and let me start talking to them, but this girl came right up to me and introduced herself, and I wasn't prepared for it (I was distracted by a nerdy thing), so it was kind of awkward at first, but instead of being repelled by the awkwardness like most girls she just pushed through it and in a few minutes we had a very nice conversation. I thought she was very nice and I was impressed by her forwardness, but I always imagined having a nerdy girlfriend, and she was an art history major (I consider all majors without a mathematical basis to basically be majors in BS), and although she was nice I had difficulty imagining having sustained conversations with her, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to try to push things towards a relationship or not. I was torn between my desire for physical intimacy and not wanting to get a girl attached to me that I knew from the start that I would dump at some point. I was also thinking that maybe if I just gave her a chance that maybe I would like her better. I am not sure how many guys in my situation would choose to let the girl know that he didn't really like her that much, or even if very many of them would think twice about this sort of dilemma. I think guys tend to think that any relationship is better than none, but girls in general don't seem to think that way, otherwise it would not be so difficult to get a girlfriend. So it could be guys have to initiate things because when they do, at least the girl knows that the guy thinks that she is the most attractive girl of the pool he thinks he has a chance with, whereas if the girl initiates something, the guy's reaction probably can't tell her anything about how serious he is. It probably also has some sort of evolutionary thing where the girls have to try to get the guys to compete over them so that they get the best mate or something like that.

And by the way, I think I resolved my dilemma on accident by doing things like forgetting the girl's name next class and not being able to sustain the conversation like I did last time.

Another thing I thought was kind of odd about this girl was that in the course of our first conversation, she mentioned that she had a boyfriend. Is that not weird to give random guys you don't know that much attention when you already have a partner? I don't think I'd be very happy if I had a girlfriend who did stuff like that, and also, hitting on a girl who already has a boyfriend sounds like drama, which I abhor.


You are a fairly insightful young man. I commend you for your critical thinking skills with respect to interpersonal relationships.

While there are multiple historical and evolutionary reasons as to why it's far more common in human societies for the male to initiate romantic or sexual relationships, you are correct in that girls generally are not of the mindset that any relationship is better than none. Most guys usually come to expect a similar mindset after learning from experiencing in the dating field.



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24 Oct 2012, 3:58 am

smudge wrote:
And women let men have all the fun because "it's just the way it is". What about women who want to chase men?? It's not fair.


Nyeah, nyeah! Can't catch me!! :P