Burning in the hell of 'almost (NT)'

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Warning - rant. Why do I write these? I hope to god someone who feels the same way I do will at least take comfort in knowing they aren't by themselves, otherwise I'd keep this all to myself.

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Usually I can chill with where I'm at in life, chill with being almost NT, having most of the benefits but not all, but sometimes the little reality checks which show me just how completely I'd have to change who I am to ever hack it in a shallow superficial relationship world really put all of that to shame. It doesn't even have anything to do with not having what I want but knowing whats there, knowing exactly how things are, knowing what needs to be done, knowing why and how it needs to be done, and living inside this geek who for the life of me I'll never be able to get those things out of.

Its all about that scrambler that takes an internal adult and completely resorts the person on the way out so that the world has absolutley no idea who the heck they're really looking at. The lovely thing about this world, which is so true, so aggravating, but completely unchangeable, is the fact that most people in your life will never look past the exterior and those who get close enough will always have an almost exclusively platonic connection. If there's one thing I learned even as a teen is that you can't change the world, you can't change society, the only person you can change is yourself - gotta love how AS completely strips self-determination on certain angles that are so small yet so vital in this world. The thing that really makes me writhe though is the thought of slowly beating this, slowly becomming more and more NT, more and more the way I want to become, slowly get just a little more freedom, every bit of progress comming about 2 or 3 years late on the normal developemental clock, and by the time I've finally gotten what I want - too late, my life was consumed in the struggle, its over. I'm ALWAYS gonna have just enough control and just enough progress to keep me tantalized, keep the world spurring me to do it out of necessity, keep the shame and internal humiliations fueling me to keep the knife to my back, if I try to relax and just accept my life as it is those moments of shame will hook me in the stomache harder and harder, and ultimately burn in the hell of almost increasingly with each passing day - every day I get older, every day I get closer to losing youth, every day I come closer to having my fate sealed by time, I'm gonna care less and less about anything other than becomming 100% full-bred NT; that's just how it is.

Seriously though, although I don't think a cure should be pushed on people with AS or HFA who are lost in the magic of it too much to be as burdened by this kind of stuff I really think they should at least try to come up with something to help the people who's souls this condition is practically eating a day at a time, murdering them a day at a time, drowning them a day at a time, torching them a day at a time, it's just f'd. If I end up pushing myself so hard that I end up with a near fatal brain aneurysm, even if I render myself a damn vegetable by pushing myself so hard, I really don't care - I either get myself there or I bust and really don't give a f--- what the consequences are. Whatever I can't conscienably see myself doing now I'm just not ready to do yet and although I really cross my fingers and hope I'll find some breaks before every bit of who I am right now has to get scrapped I don't think reality is that kind and it's probably all just wishful thinking - who I am now is gonna be long gone, everything I really wanted to share with someone else by that time deemed age-inappropriate, and just like that society will have pretty much beaten me. I'd just about saw off a limb to get a happy ending out of this...

I can understand you wanting to be like Nts, But I am one and I would rather have more aspie traits then I do, My imediate family, husband, daughter and son are all Aspergic and I envey their intelligence and their unique way of looking at the world. No shallow talk for them oh no, they get to the nitty gritty of things as I am sure you probably do, within minutes I am lost, my brain doesn't work that good. Mine is to shallow.

Why would you want that, not being able to discuss in depth, to be able to grasp things I only see passing.

If your aim in life is to be NT then your life will be pitiful and wasted when you could be so much more.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I set my bar ever higher too. What you ahve to remember is that even though you mjight never feel you are "perfect," those around you appreciate the fact that you're improving. Don't view yourself as ever striving and failing to be good enough- you're just alwasy improving and always getting better.

Plus, of course, NT or AS, you are a human being. If you think you're perfect when you're human you're delusional.

What would happen if you woke up one morning and you were there? No more lifelong struggle because there was no need for it? Would you spend the rest of your life happy?

Tch3step,

I dunno if I want become a NT, although I would love to fit better in the NT world and able to become the person I feel deep inside. I want people to know I am a intelligent, well educated, sweet, generous, humorous and hopefully high status guy, I want to express true self to others well. I want people who like me for who I am, to have a richer social life, to find a woman who loves me and I love her and be together with her. I want leave the underclass of my childhood and it's inhabitants behind and live in a nice beachside neighbourhood of Sydney or Perth. I have an energy and determination to succeed at any price, even if I have the mother of midlife crisises down the road.

I'm making the biggest plunge of my whole life and I feel anxious, I have great hope I will succeed.

I get very annoyed with being stuck on the borderline of AS / NT.

I am socially aware enough to know that I dont quite fit in, I'm never quite confortable. I have enough theory of mind (or whatever you want to call it) to be able to see other people's points of view - but I often can't make my own mind because all I can see are alternatives and shades of grey, yet I still get very annoyed when I know I'm right - even if I turn out to be wrong.

I'm sorry, I'm not making much sense, but this it what it is like to be one the cusp of NT. Life doesn't make much sense.

North.... Your right the grass looks very green across the fence from where I am standing.

If aspies were gifted with social aspests we would have a race of super humans. Now that would be something.

You know from conversations we've had about this before that usually I can chill with where I'm at in life a lot more easily than you can - just a difference of personality/temperament/life experiences I guess. Yesterday I had one of those experiences though where I was really feeling where you're coming from in your post - I haven't felt it that intensely in a really long time and it was because the rest of the day had been so good, I saw what it's like on the other side, and then I got sucked back into the bottle.

Lol, drugs? No, I was just with my sister all day. Like I told you a few days ago she seems to have this mystical effect on me, a way of getting that muzzle off my inner NT. Yesterday the NT side came out even more than it usually does when I'm with her. We were together all day (she hasn't moved in yet, she was just here job-hunting). Usually anything more than a few hours with *anyone* will drain me. We were *together* (no breaks) for 10 hours and I was loving it. We were doing some girly stuff for awhile (things like checking out different stores in the mall) that usually I wouldn't enjoy and I was having a really good time. I was talking a lot more than I usually do. It felt like we were connecting in a way that I don't usually feel with other people, like I was tapping into that elusive NT social network. Even when John got home from work (Tammy was still here) I was interacting and connecting with him in a more normal NT way. (Of course the aspie in me was still there too and I even had a few blatent "aspie moments" through the day, just enough to let everyone know that it was still the same old me...)

I hate to pin all this on my sister so I kept telling myself that it had nothing to do with her. Maybe I just happened to be having a really good day, and the fact that she was there was just a coincidence... with that in mind I was expecting these great things to continue after she left but I didn't get so lucky. Within less than an hour the muzzle got strapped back on and I was right back to my usual aspie self. I'm sure you can imagine the frustration... I've really gotta figure out what it is about Tammy that allows the NT side of me to get out like that so I can duplicate it all the time, not just when she's around. There's gotta be a way... I'm trying to learn from the experience at least - like we were talking about with alcohol/drugs the other day, trying to remember the experience/what it felt like/what I was thinking/feeling etc so hopefully I can gain something more permanent from it.

BTW if you get this right away, are you on MSN? I got a little popup saying that you'd signed in but it looks like you're still offline... A glitch? If a person signs in 'appearing offline' I didn't think it would announce to everyone that they just signed in - kinda defeats the purpose of trying to be invisible.

I don't know if I quite mean smashing what I do see, its more the fact that I can't rise above what I see and act in the ways I know I need to to have the kind of esteem and honor that I pretty much demand out of myself. I guess I really just want to be completely NT-compatable rather than NT; which I feel I have the know-how to do but again - not the outbound wiring. I just hate having full knowledge and having the feeling that I'm 1). not holding up my end of the deal socially 2). that not holding up my end almost warrants people being wierd to me and 3). that there are certain things in the relationship world that I'll never have handled with the roadblocks I have right now being what they are - image, sleekness, and being able to entertain is everything (and unfortunately while there's other types of people out there, they're either non-compatable or I just never realistically have a chance of meeting or talking to em single).

I just get nauseated, and many people here do, feeling like the next 60 years of my life are already on a set course and that society can and will block me at every turn - that comes back to that feeling like I can't change them, I can only change me (and if I lose in the end, shame on me). When its like that you almost feel like you're already dead and your mind and body just haven't caught on to that fact. I know things will get better, but right now there's a lot of shame comming with this and most of it comes from the fact that I really am geared in ways that 9 out of 10 aspies aren't - ways where I feel like I see too much too clearly for my own good.

I make no claims that it would make me happy, just that I'd have a hell of a lot more free reign over myself - at least where I want to go from here. Its not about smashing my cognition from one end and fixing something else, there's certain things I'd never want to lose but at the same time its almost a joke that people think those perspectives are somehow strictly aspie. All I want is a way to get control of my outerself, be able to assert myself in society by being able to play its games with the best of them (of course in the right ways, not abusively) because its the only way I'll be able to walk out the door and be comfortable in my own skin unfortunately.

some days i have been completely NT. i thought i was "cured" or mis-diagnosed. but i was sub-counsiously acting NT i think. those days.
i dont wanna be NT, i just want everyone else to be aspie:D

Actually, that makes a lot more sense. I don't always keep up with some of your more esoteric arguments, but that one I could have said word for word. When you put it that way, I think I might actually have accomplished it to a degree, instead of having reoriented myself so that I was no longer concerned with the challenge, which is what it has seemed like when I've responded to you in the past.

When it comes to playing games, my best and closest friend is psychology. I'm not very good among a group of people, I fade into the background... but if I've considered every individual in the group one by one, figured out what makes them tick and how to manipulate them, then it doesn't matter what happens in a group setting because I can win their game and get the results I want one-on-one. I know what you mean about not using it abusively... my foremost goal when dealing with others in that context is to heal. But I still use manipulation tactics to get it.

Yeah, esoteric is probably the best way to put it. I don't do that to trip people up or challenge them though, hope it doesn't come off that way, I think it just has a lot to do with how my wiring and self-talk work. I'm really glad you saw it for what it was though, read at pure surface value I really feel as though I'd sound like a douche at times. Another part of that is that, like NT's, we're all composites of the people we've learned from - one of my best friends friends for almost 5 years was a guy who could practically sell the devil ice in conversation, had this thing with Tool and lacrimology, making arguments in this kind of 3rd person way, real abstract on his approach to people as well as life dynamics, and that's something that I never saw in other people and something that - when I applied it to myself - helped me crack a lot of the mysteries of my own mind and psyche to which the keys had just never been presented. Yeah, things have changed and I've seen that in many cases that kind of psyche tends to be narcissistic and ego driven but I value people for what I can learn from them while I can learn from them and till they throw issues at me that outweigh their benefits I'm still down to chill with em (i've had many friends in the past who were the kind of stuck-up narcissistic drug-dealing acid techno/junglist dj kids who knew eveyone in the scene - despite all that they've been way more interesting to me than most people and I've always found myself to be interesting to them in a positive way that I wasn't to most people) - not to bring that here, I guess I'm just tracing where the twists and turns in my own thinking and rhetoric (as well as developement) come from just so it all makes a bit more sense to anyone who reads my thoughts on a lot of these threads like "Where the f--- is his head at!?". Not to sound self absorbed but I'll admit it, I'm definitely a bit weird here even sometimes and I kinda feel from time to time that I almost owe an explanation if I want anyone to follow along with what the heck it is I'm saying or feel where I'm comming from on stuff - I'm definitely not just trying to be 'cool' nor would I want anyone to think that (I'm just being as true to my bottom-line self and its needs as I can).




That's probably why alcohol's been such a good friend to me lately - because when I'm drinking and NT's arround me are drinking we're all on the same level. I love the fact that I live in a party house as well; one of my friends at least is real outgoing and confident, does his best to bring the neighbors back here, takes care of the socializing on levels that I'm not quite as compatable on (the small-talk), and they usually love talking to me when they get all wasted and wanna have real conversations or get philosophical on stuff (not that its anything new but its nice to see it with a new group now). My biggest challenge right now though, like I was telling a friend at the bar tonight, is mostly opening my compatability - I don't need to be shallow but I really need to be compatable with all kinds of people on all kinds of different levels. One of the things she told me herself is that in her opinion, one of the reasons I don't relate to women well is that most (like most of society from both genders) are shallow and can't make anything of deep conversation, that's something I've known for a long time and I feel like I've come a good distance as far as meeing the realities of that halfway from my end, however I still see that I have a very long way to go before I can really be heartfelt with most people and when I overload I still feel like I'm that creepy 75 year old senile-demented guy in a 26 year olds body AND that all the creme de la creme stuck up yuppies walking past me (who I don't want to like me but don't want to give a free scorn-high to) can see it like it's plain as day. That's I guess the last thing that really bugs me, in my sober state I can feel way more messed up than I do when I'm drunk or otherwise (at least compared with most other people's psychological states) - hopefully the more experiences I have with brushing with the better half of my psyche the closer I'll be able to come to this in my sober state. The really odd thing.... when I'm drunk and free of all that baggage I feel like I'm free to learn social skills and things in general that I just wouldn't have been perceptive or opened to otherwise....weird but I'm thinking I should just play along, be a singe mid-20's type of guy, live the life, and hopefully the more I bring myself to my own personal zen the quicker I'll learn what I need to to move on to the next round of my life rather than feeling like I'm treading water and going nowhere emotionally and spiritually...

I spent my life trying to find people like me, until I realised, its so interesting to explore the possibilities of those different from ourselves.

I don't about the grass is always greener, I think its a fallacy we create to give ourselves fake hope, instead of simply knowing what we can do and doing it.

Yes we have social problems, but WE CAN DO THINGS OTHERS CAN NOT, you (yes you, reading this) probably know something you're particularly skilled at that no one can do quite the way you can.

If you understood something completely, would you really find it interesting at all?

You are who you are, don't worry how much percentage AS, and how much NT, if aspergers helps to explain it to people, its useful, if its just getting in the way of who you are, don't worry about it.

I have to do things my own way.

Coincidentally, anyone here a Tool fan?

Wow, this is a pretty old thread, Pyraxis hasn't been on WP for a while.

As for how my opinions changed since that last post I'll say this - I definitely feel the need to command respect, to push myself to be more refined, but at the same time lately I've found it easier to flat out not care what a lot of people think of me. It took years to get over that but then again the way I was raised I was kinda directly and indirectly taught that anyone elses perspective was better and more accurate than my own and I just had to take their word for it. While I care a lot less about people's immediate superfical judgements anymore or even if they're just too base or competitive to wanna know a damn thing past that so what - if they want to bring it they're welcome to try, otherwise I could care less. The only thing that varies with that is its a lot easier when its like that, you don't know them, they don't know you, its starting out like shite - its a bit harder on the emotions when things start out pretty well and go straight south because even though they liked you as in the refined unflawed you they got thrown by the quirks in your mannerism and demeanor. I don't know if I really feel like arguing about it one way or another right now but I'll just say from my standpoint, and this is still the way I see it, society sees pettiness as almost an obligation - its like if you can't sort those things through and not have problems with speech or eye contact then it's like a breach of social contract, its like you disrespected them, its kinda like giving someone a real limp-wristed dead handshake and people don't like it even if they try not to be judgemental. My own emotional sensitivity to that and my awareness of how people see me in that respect at times has me in a place where again, I'm only my happiest when either I'm in that kind of mood where I'm satisfied with how much my nervous system is allowing of me or if I'm doing everything I can to sort through the days where things aren't working right.