An article on "bullycide"

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Also just out of curiosity if one percieves someone as a victim......doesn't that indicate that person might actually be a victim of something? I guess I don't see why anyone would see 'that person looks like a victim' as a reason to go harras them. I mean that would be the same as 'oh look that person laying on the ground looks injured, lets go kick them while their down.' just does not make a whole lot of sense.

I also don't see how bullies would be percieved as the strong ones if they go after supposedly weaker people or victims or whatever....societies backwards I guess.

Yes, people have often been abused by an angry parent etc. and that is often where it starts. What I am saying is, I have been there and there is a way to break free. You have to get angry enough to decide that you are worth more and refuse to be the victim.

Do things that align with this thought, for example, take martial arts courses, start taking better care of yourself just because you deserve it. Stop listening to people who devalue you you and just say "You know what? I don't need your BS" and walk away with your dignity. Don't over think negative experiences, just move on and do something pleasant. It's all that time that is spent over analyzing that can lead to more negative mentality. Just shake it off. Some people are just part of the scenery like a rock or a tree or piece of garbage blowing down the street. You don't have to pick up that garbage...you can let it keep on blowing.

I also have seen a lot of human nature that sucks, but I know the problem is other people's sh***y evil nature, nothing else. In a way, I can prove that it's not AS etc. Do you see people bullying people with down syndrome? People with down syndrome say and do inappropriate things but they don't get bullied. The reason is: For a bully to feel gratification, they have to feel that they are doing battle with an equal. So they find an equal with a defeated mind so that can tell themselves they've played fair.

((( Hugs ))) I wish you could see through my eyes for a moment. You'd feel so much better. I have been through the worst kind of bullying, but I refused to allow other people to assign me my worth and that is when it ended.

Well yeah uhh I don't have the energy or the money for matial arts, I'm doing the best I can with taking care of myself but its easier said then done, and its hard to ignore what people say when it can even cause physical pain at times and naturally I internalize things and it causes problems because then I start beliving the nasty things people might say about me. Also I don't know how to turn my thought process off which is what I would have to do in order to not over think negative experiances. Shaking it off is difficult due to what I already said and that low self esteem........which I could just shake it off but thats not what happens.

That said I'm glad you were able to overcome all that...though I still don't understand why people would want to make things worse for someone they percieve as a 'victim'.

Okay. I think we've reached some common ground. I'm never going to completely agree on judging people who commit suicide, but I can see why it upsets you. I apologize for getting upset.

If I want to stop a person from killing themselves probably the best thing to say is not only would it upset me greatly if they did it, but that I also really want them to feel better and think they deserve to feel better. Procrastination is also a good technique. If someone wants to kill themselves, it doesn't really make sense to rush it as they have all eternity to be dead.

If someone is going to commit suicide out of an intolerable feeling of exasperation or self-directed rage then the best thing is to just try and get them to calm down. Guilt tripping them in a bad way will just trigger defensiveness and push them further away. I don't see how telling them they are delusional, irrational, or immoral is going to help anything. Genuinely letting them know how much it will hurt you if they kill themselves is better as it's not a judgmental statement but simply a statement of fact.

I don't believe that your experiences could ever be called bullying.
But probably my idea of bullying is much less awful than yours. Your experiences were awful crimes to me and not only bullying. You just had no chance to defend yourself. That has nothing to do with your physical and mental strength.
But I didn't mean that the bully is the fittest one. A bully is just a psycho who plays against the rules. But he would let everybody be who is able to defend him/herself or is likely to fight back. And to me, everybody who accepts being bullied, accepts all the pain, must be mentally weak. I know that you didn't accept it, much more you grew from it.
Many others don't. Many others will just break.

Well, I think you're a stronger person than you give yourself credit for. You tend to point out all the negatives and that bothers some people, but you seem to have a very independent mind. If only that could work for you more than against you.

So sorry Awes, I should have mentioned that my reply wasn't only to you. ((( Hugs ))) I want to help people heal themselves and it is 100% possible.

Girls can be very mean and I did sometimes have problem with them, but I was actually pushed around a lot at school by boys. They would mock me and call me names, make fun of my body in some way, try to step on the backs of my shoes, pull things out of my arms, push me, take things from my locker, get me up against a wall. Once, one of my regular attackers got me pinned up against a wall and I could tell he was actually interested in me physically, yet, he was the meanest one! I am guessing he felt attracted to "The weird girl" and much like homophobia, he found it disturbing and had to try to make sure that everyone knew that he didn't like me, so he wouldn't get teased too. You know, a lot of bullying is about a group mentality and for a group to exist, they have to have some people who are not in the exclusive group. Anyway, I had fantasies about getting a gun, luring him with the potential to have sex and forcing him to strip at gunpoint, taking his clothes and making him walk home naked. I actually had access to a gun, but of course, I never did it. It was more of a coping mechanism to think that I would get even. It should be noted that he actually did something that got him in prison later. No surprise!

I feel literally tearful when I read these posts. I wish that I could surround them with love and let them see that life is still magic and mysterious and worthy of being embraced. There is nothing that AS people weren't born with that they can not learn if they apply the same attention to it as their special interests. All humans are a work in progress.

Last edited by PersephoneX on 16 Jan 2012, 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Suicides occur when someone's situation is greater than their ability to cope with it.
That's it.
I'm not sure why there's judgement against such people.
I've been in just such a place, and tried to off myself, and if ever I'm in such a situation again,
I will most assuredly do the same thing.

It's wonderful for people who have never been in such a place,
or who have, and for whatever reason after the fact decided that they somehow misjudged their situation (it is, after all, subjective)
but preaching about any other individual's situation and what they should or should not do is quite frankly ignorant and offensive.

There is no moral obligation to live in abject misery, least of all to one's self.

That is a little overly simplistic. Suicide occurs when someone's situation is greater than their perceived ability to cope with it. This may seem like a small distinction but, really, it's an enormous one.

There is no moral obligation to live in misery. The problem is when a person decides not to rid themselves of their misery, but rather to rid themselves of life itself. The pain a suicide causes to those left behind is immense, earth shattering, and people do have a moral obligation to not cause that sort of pain to those that love them. Especially considering the fact that it is, quite simply, unnecessary 99.999% of the time.

Preaching about another's situation and what they should or should not do? Hell, every single person does it every single day. Okay, maybe not preaching, but judging. By that logic, how dare we criticize the bullys themselves. For all we know, their victimization of others is merely the only means they can find of escaping their own pain. Of course, people only think of it as judging when they disagree with the verdict, but determining which acts are acceptable and which are not is an essential part of life.

You've been in the situation and tried to off yourself. It's wonderful that you failed. The fact that you have chosen to live, rather than immediately go back and try again, is proof that when you decided to try you yourself think you made the wrong decision. You said "if ever I'm in such a situation again" which means you're not in it now. I hope you'll think on that before you try again, it means that whatever situation caused you to mistakenly believe that suicide was the only answer must not be permanent.

No it's not. Doesn't mean I don't wish I could.

I'm not judging the people, I'm judging the act. If I thought the people themselves were stupid or horrible people for doing it I'd just say "good riddance" and be done with it. What I have a problem with is them ridding the world of something worth keeping in it, themselves.

I've tried to say that before here. I've said a few times that while I think suicide is stupid and wrong, that smart people do stupid things, and that good people do the wrong thing, all the time. I'm sorry if I haven't been clearer about it.

I never advocated guilt-tripping a suicidal person. I advocated changing people's attitudes toward suicide before they became suicidal in the first place. If you read my posts in this thread carefully, you'll see that has been my position from the start. I even said outright a couple times that I did not think what I was saying would be helpful to someone who was already at that point, but that maybe having these things ingrained early on would help prevent them from seeing suicide as the answer in the first place.

((( Hugs ))) I get it and agree.

Thank you. People can disagree with me as much as they like. It's a good thing even, forces me to evaluate and refine my thinking. And even, once in a while, causes me to change my beliefs. But it's good to know someone does agree.

You mentioned a couple times that it was your anger that spurred you to overcome the things that had happened to you. I can definitely relate to that. Anger is one of the most powerful tools we humans have and, properly channeled, it can help us accomplish some truly great things. Improperly channeled however, and we just end up becoming another version of those who wronged us in the first place.

I have less problem with you calling it wrong (because it causes pain to loved ones) than I do with you calling it stupid. In using that word you are no more objective than the suicidal person. I don't believe someone must be deluded or out of their mind to be considering suicide. That looks a lot like wishful thinking. I don't believe there's always a cognitive solution to an emotional problem.

I think the way she worded it was better. "Perceived" reinforces the idea that it's just "in their heads". Yes depression does have a lot to do with perception, but coping abilities are something you must actively develop so you can't just believe you have great coping skills, you must develop them and make them work. So her statement can easily apply to the fact that a depressed person doesn't have the ability at that moment to cope with it.

I don't think there should a moral obligation to live in misery just because you're guilt tripped into it with the "OMG it's so selfish!" crap. There should be a moral obligation for the family members to get the suicidal person help and provide support rather than getting involved in guilt tripping.

Well that's because the victim suffers more and that making your own problems into someone else's problems is a dick move. You can say suicide makes your problems into your family's problems, but that's clearly not the intention.

YES, someone gets it. Goddamn I hate the "Objective thinking is the holy grail of all problems" crap more than anything else. None of my problems were ever solved strictly with an objective way of thinking or acting. I've always had to reconcile all that stuff with my intuition, imagination, and experiences. We're not cyborgs for God's sakes.

I don't know about that one. Anger is a damn horrid symptom of depression for me. It constantly pushes people away. It's hard for me to see anything good about it. The things that anger me the most are often the things I can do the least about. If I have power over a situation I tend not to feel anger, even it might be justified to be angry.

The whole topic of bulling stirs a whole lot of anger in me as it's hard to imagine anything more unjust than tormenting someone for no good reason. This is why any discussion of the victim being wrong or stupid really rubs me the wrong way. It looks like someone pouring salt onto an open wound.