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Why do so many aspies want friends?

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Emettman
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14 May 2006, 1:39 am

Iammeandnooneelse wrote:
Well, be a teenager, don't interact, see where it gets you.
If it comes to that, interact, see where it gets you.
You're ******* if you do. You're ******* if you don't. Since you're ******* either way, you might as well try. That's my experience anyway.


Well, that was my experience too, but the conclusion "you might as well not try and at least save yourself the effort." seems equally valid.

Looking back on teenage, through a thirty-year telescope, a couple of things I didn't have might have helped:

Reassurance, reinforcement, that it was OK to be yourself: not always to be like the crowd.

Advice and help on how to do the social world and friendship.

Missed both, as I was expected to like and do normal thiongs, but not given support when I found that difficult. Yes, that's undoubtedly left low expectations and some emotional scar tissue.

Unpicking that now is difficult. I took up a book entitled "Human relationship skills", and discovered on page 3 that I didn't really qualify as human by the author's definition.
(It's actually a good book, but not designed for Aspies).



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14 May 2006, 7:32 am

Well, that was my experience too, but the conclusion "you might as well not try and at least save yourself the effort." seems equally valid.

True. However, we have many posters around our school 'If you don't try something beyond what you have mastered, you will never grow' and stuff like that so I think it's kinda drilled into my brain.



Emettman
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14 May 2006, 12:38 pm

Iammeandnooneelse wrote:
we have many posters around our school 'If you don't try something beyond what you have mastered, you will never grow' and stuff like that so I think it's kinda drilled into my brain.


Do they have ones that go "Why not try solitude?" for the overly social?

Or perhaps "Quiet contemplation of of a book: the new challenge" for the sports enthusiast?


Try the new, yes, but persistently attempting what you're not good at and don't enjoy?
Somewhere there's a tip-over point...
I admit not to having found a good point of comfort. I can do sociable quite well, but I've never learnt how to really enjoy it. And few people indeed who are happy to "come and play" where I feel comfortable.



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15 May 2006, 3:11 pm

Do they have ones that go "Why not try solitude?" for the overly social?

Or perhaps "Quiet contemplation of of a book: the new challenge" for the sports enthusiast?

On the first one, no way.
On the secod one: Does 'You can branch out in any field you like if you have the proper roots in education' count?



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15 May 2006, 3:14 pm

Try the new, yes, but persistently attempting what you're not good at and don't enjoy?
Somewhere there's a tip-over point...

That's pretty much the definiton of various stuff I have to do for school.



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16 May 2006, 2:50 am

car_crash wrote:
i think that not having friends makes my life of less worth than the people who do. i want to be accepted and valued so i can, in turn, value myself


Fitting in and having a relationship are, to me, two different things. I do want to fit in, and I expect to be respected in situations where I am with others. I do want to be accepted, and I strive to be accepted, at least as best that I can.

Having a relationship takes much more of an effort, though. Then, you have to start deeply worrying about the other person, which is okay so long as I can handle the stress of it. You work eight hours a day, for example. That's stressful enough, even at a job that I might like. Then, I just want to be alone for most of the night. I don't want to be bothered. In a relationship, that would most likely offend someone else. Like, I would probably stipulate that I don't want to do anything unless it's on a weekend.

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16 May 2006, 2:53 am

Veresae wrote:
I need solitude sometimes, but I need social interaction others. Not with just anyone, but with people I can relate to. Plus, without friends, who can one trust? Who can one turn to when one has been hurt? Who can one go to for help when one needs it, or when one desires it? Friends come in handy; even if conversations with others are not stimulating to you, you cannot deny that having the right friends can allow one to reach certain places one wouldn't be able to reach without such friends.


Friends, at least for me, have generally been superficial. There's a couple of students I conversed with at school, and it was very few, but I lost interest after school. I tend to be so engrossed in my life and what interests me, that I lose interest.

That's probably why I'm going to a support group, to meet other people who have AS or a similar condition, and to discuss our problems and so forth. If, say, I meet someone I can talk to on occasion, or even meet on occasion, that would be good. But, it has been my experience that most friends want much more than that. They want to meet more often, when I only want to meet up on a weekend or something.

- Ray M -



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17 May 2006, 12:55 am

I want friends for two reasons. First, I believe that life is incomplete without connecting to people. It's tough to explain without getting too deep into my spiritual beliefs, but I just don't think we can know ourselves completely without getting to know others, and as humans we tend to form societies for that purpose.

Secondly, and this is a selfish one, sometimes I need help navigating this planet. I'm a very self sufficient person out of necessity, but sometimes I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to do something - generally something social. There are places I won't go for the first time without someone to go with me. New environments can be so overwhelming that I get lost and can't find my way without completely humiliating myself or inconveniencing someone else. So if I have a friend, we can go together and I can follow their lead. It expands my world into experiences I wouldn't have on my own. I don't think this is as selfish as it sounds. I've heard many NTs say they'll never go to a restaurant or a movie alone too, so they do kinda the same thing. But I'll go to movies and restaurants alone. I know what to do there.



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17 May 2006, 1:14 am

ratlady wrote:
There are places I won't go for the first time without someone to go with me.


That pressure I understand, but when the very activity is the one designed to make new friends... "Paradox, paradox, a most ingenious paradox."

I've tried the usual routes: evening classes, voluntary work, singles advertisements.

"Recluse seeks similar. Possibly. Your ivory tower or mine?"



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20 May 2006, 12:48 pm

Emettman wrote:
"Recluse seeks similar. Possibly. Your ivory tower or mine?"

That paradox succinctly sums it up, for many of us-including myself.
I ponder the ironies of this plight frequently.
How to find a needle in a haystack, the other introverts we introverts might get along with ? Plenty of online locations, but IRL it's like agoraphobics trying to get together-I don't want to leave my house, either...
Misanthrope ISO of a few compatible misanthropes (as in disliking people in general-with a few rare (but crucial) exceptions. Not assuming anyone else here is, but I am introverted, agoraphobic, and misanthropic-yet I do want/need friends in my life.


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20 May 2006, 1:05 pm

ratlady wrote:
I want friends for two reasons. First, I believe that life is incomplete without connecting to people. It's tough to explain without getting too deep into my spiritual beliefs, but I just don't think we can know ourselves completely without getting to know others, and as humans we tend to form societies for that purpose.

Secondly, and this is a selfish one, sometimes I need help navigating this planet. I'm a very self sufficient person out of necessity, but sometimes I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to do something - generally something social. There are places I won't go for the first time without someone to go with me. New environments can be so overwhelming that I get lost and can't find my way without completely humiliating myself or inconveniencing someone else. So if I have a friend, we can go together and I can follow their lead. It expands my world into experiences I wouldn't have on my own. I don't think this is as selfish as it sounds. I've heard many NTs say they'll never go to a restaurant or a movie alone too, so they do kinda the same thing. But I'll go to movies and restaurants alone. I know what to do there.

Wanted to second (or third) your post.
I don't consider my beliefs spiritual, I call them psychological, whcih to me is at base physical. Point is that I believe people evoke & provoke things (good, bad, and indifferent) in each other through their interactions, and that it's a useful function/service. Though too much of the wrong kind is as bad as not enough of the right kind (of attention/communication/proximity).
Also, another caring person can help give me courage (by their presence & demeanor) for a task-and hopefully vice versa, in some other arena. At an extreme level, I want/need someone to make sure I'm not laying dead for a week in my apt. before anyone bothers to notice I'm gone. Y'know ?


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20 May 2006, 8:25 pm

Belfast wrote:
Wanted to second (or third) your post.
At an extreme level, I want/need someone to make sure I'm not laying dead for a week in my apt. before anyone bothers to notice I'm gone. Y'know ?


I want to second yours in return - this is one thought absolutely haunts me. I could die today, here on my couch, and no one would know. Would my employer eventually report me missing? Or would my neighbors be the first to notice? I imagine strangers dealing with my things, no one here to defend my wishes. I wonder if people who have loads of friends appreciate having the same things we fear without them.

A new greeting card... "I'm glad you are my friend. Because when I die, I'm sure you'll discover me before I rot."



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22 May 2006, 2:55 pm

Personally, I like having a few friends because it's nice to have someone that you feel comfortable with beyond one's family, especially in school. Among other things, it helps crowded, stressful situations, and friends help you to feel a bit more relaxed since they understand your quirks and you know they don't mind them. It's nice to have someone to chat with, y'know?

Mind you, I don't always go looking for friends, and I certainly don't pretend to make allowances for people that stab me in the back or what have you. Generally, my friends take upwards of a year to make, but they usually stay my friend for a very long time.


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22 May 2006, 3:32 pm

I need friends, and I need my alone time. If I am always alone, or always with friends, it stunts my growth as a person. The point is to have a balance that works for me.



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22 May 2006, 8:48 pm

Human beings are social animals. Our survival depended on human bonds and interactions, long and short-term, throughout most parts of our evolutionary history. Thus, most of us are wired like the rest of the population.



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23 May 2006, 1:25 am

Minerva wrote:
Thus, most of us are wired like the rest of the population.


Then there's the rest of us.

In monkey terms, I'm the rather ungroomed one on the edge of the troupe.
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