NT needs advice re frienship with possible Aspie!! !! !!

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I am not sure what I should do. I don't think I should ask him if he has Aspergers. I do feel if he does, and would embrace it, that we would be able to work together to manage our communication difficulties and maintain a friendship. I know that he is trying and that my friendship is important to him but, if I look at it from an NT way and given what I suspect about him having Aspergers, the way it feels right now is that I am doing all the work. The amount of time and energy I am investing, is becoming draining. I really am at a loss because I care deeply about him, particularly due to my fond memories of him and our times together as young people.

Any help or suggestions would be welcomed.

Last edited by spankyandthegang on 03 Feb 2006, 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

write out a dating resume and give it to him. That is a half joke. Because i'd really like to get a resume from a potential mate. It is cute, useful, and an obvious flirt that can be delivered without eye contact or direct confrontation.

You have an interesting situation here.

First, I would like to point out something that's very important: if your fellow has suffered from Asperger's for 40 years of life and for most or all of that time had no idea what was happening, then you're dealing with someone hardened. He has a whole lifetime of very painful, confusing, depressing, and contradictory experiences built up. People are people: AS or not, they try to figure themselves out. When that doesn't work, they can put in place some very big barriers, defenses, and insane explanations. I speak from knowing men who have been through a life like this. It takes a ravaging toll.

About the friendship, I'll say this: if you're trying, something's wrong. It's that simple. Between NTs and aspies, a friendship either gels or it doesn't. I go through this all the time. I meet a girl, she thinks I'm cute, and we have a date. We talk a little bit, and it's clear that communication just isn't working out, as much as we both would like it to. It's not like two NTs, either. Two NTs can go along and be civil, though they may not become closer or particularly interested in one another. No, with an aspie and NT, if it doesn't gel, there are awkward silences, painful misunderstandings, and anxiety. It's awful.

Now, when it doesn't gel, I can choose to try: try to communicate better, try to figure her out, try to be more likeable. But it doesn't work. She just doesn't get me, or I her. I used to try. Now, I'm honest. I tell her right away, I don't think this is working out, or I just don't call for another lunch. When a friendship with an NT works, it just flows. When it doesn't, it's like pulling teeth, and with all my skill and knowledge I've never been able to change that.

You're on the other side, and it sounds like the reality of the situation is, things aren't gelling. You've got fond memories, and it's wonderful that you want to build a bridge with him to share an earlier part of your lifetimes. I doubt it's going to work, though. It's not your fault. It's not his fault. You guys are on different channels, and that's not something that can be studied or willed away, no matter how intelligent you both are. You are the victims of an idiosyncrasy of the syndrome.

If this seems right to you, then I advise: be honest and kind with him and yourself. I think you're right not to start prying into whether he has AS. Stop trying, and things will probably peter out. And I repeat, be kind to yourself. Give yourself a pat on the back for doing your best to understand him and make things work.

I agree with GroovyDruid in part, but not completely. Sure, you're probably dealing with plenty of barriers. And if you're both into the communication that's happened so far, he's probably equally drained. In a spectrum friendship you can't apply normal standards to what is expected of people... you have to look at what actually drains a person, and then judge on a case by case basis. This goes for both sides, since you might have to pry further than would be considered polite in a normal friendship, or ask blunt and direct questions that would offend most people, which I imagine can be an uncomfortable situation to be in.

The part I disagree with is the idea that a friendship has to just "gel" or it's not going to work. There are plenty of things that can be done to engineer situations that "gel". Often people who think things either work or they don't are just doing things subconsciously/automatically instead of stopping and thinking through every step, but I know from personal experience that both methods work. When you're missing an intuitive knowledge of social situations, rationality can make an effective backup plan.

There are certain personality traits that work well, where even in an unconventional friendship both sides are being benefitted. For example, someone who gets personal satisfaction out of breaking someone's barriers and finding their way in to the honest parts, so is happy to be patient if that's what it takes. Or a person who is caught up in a bunch of needy relationships with family or other friends may welcome the fact that the spectrum person rarely asks anything of them. I don't know how much of that applies to you, but I think the thing you have to figure out is whether you can like the friendship as it is, with the current frequency of contact and with you initiating most of it, or whether it's not worth it to you. Him changing can't be a condition, it has to be a bonus. It's hard to say how likely it is to happen, or even how interested and/or shielded he is, without seeing any of his writing to you. But in my experience it does happen a fair amount.

I respectfully disagree.

Scientifically speaking, trying to use rationality to work out a situation in which the nonverbal communication isn't working is like trying to out-calculate your computer. It's so far ahead it's done, and you're just getting started. The steps of a communication are so numerous that it would be impossible to think through them in a reasonable amount of time ... and complicated beyond all reckoning.

It can also be very, very painful to second guess every move either of you makes.

Thank you both for your thought-provoking replies. Your insights have helped me to understand the various aspects that I need to think through. While I am one who is drawn to challenges in life and one who appreciates that the most fulfilling experiences often require the most of ourselves, I also recognize my own limitations. I would like to believe that such a friendship would allow me to face my own tendencies and learn from the experience as I work through them in the context of the friendship. That, I suppose, could be seen as a bonus for me, let alone whether or not we are able to build a comfortable bridge over time. I do believe our ages factor heavily in this as GroovyDruid points out. By the time most people are our age, personalities and manners of relating are fairly formed. However, there is the possibility that given so many interests that we share, our respect for one another, a comparable level of curiosity, and our strong childhood memories, there might be hope.
I will need to sit with this awhile. Again, thank you both for your thoughts.

You may be very right about that. We don't normally get the opportunity to explain ourselves to others, or to hear what they really think about us. But I know from 10 years of working on things with my NT husband that I exude a mind-boggling, seemingly oxymoronic, ability to be very caring and attentive one minute and totally uninterested and insensitive the next. The truth is, we don't care *in general* about other people's emotional stuff; but we do care, very much, *in specific*. But even then, our need for time alone and routine can make it seem that we are "machines" or that we don't care.


That's exactly what it feels like to me. What an excellent description.


That may be because other people act like it's a problem. In our society, it's generally considered a failure not to have a thriving social life, and you need to "fix" the problem. His defensiveness may stem from having realized that not being a social butterfly is NOT a problem, particularly if he's only recently realized there's nothing he needs to "fix". (My "aha" experience was at age 36.) If you can, try not to take it personally, because it's probably an über-defensive phase related to the newness of the realization. It will probably fade as time goes by -- and at any rate, once he learns that *you* don't think he has a problem, his defensiveness with you will fade either way.


There's only one person IRL who knows I'm AS other than my husband. My kids don't even know. So while I embrace my AS and am at peace with it, I don't tell others, because I expect negative reactions from them.

Especially since you two haven't been in contact for many years, and especially if he has romantic hopes, he's unlikely to drop the "AS bomb" on you now, even if he does know about it.


The single best most wonderful thing you can do for an Aspie is let them know you know they're AS, and you're fine with that. I'm not saying you should broach the subject today, especially if he *doesn't* know it himself. But I cannot tell you how ecstatic I would be if a friend said to me, "You know, I've learned a lot about this thing called Aspergers, and I've been thinking about our friendship, and it seems to me you fit the profile pretty well. I just wanted to let you know." To have someone recognize me like that, and be okay with it.

I think the blunt approach is generally good with Aspies. I much prefer the naked truth (free of emotion, mind you) to "white lies" or vague evasions of "unpleasant" facts. In fact, knowing someone won't lie to me ever is VITAL to a friendship. I have to know I can count on them to always answer me honestly, even on the tiniest of matters. If I find out that they can't, then I lose all ability to judge what they're saying, and it becomes less interesting than white noise (because it has no meaning; it could equally well mean X or not X, and therefore has zero information content).

Interesting, I see valid points raised by all parties that have posted here.

Myself, I have a "normal" boyfriend and after 8 years of courtship, we intend to marry. I also have three very, very close friends - more than fifteen years in all cases, and a very simple policy for dealing with them. I try to be brutally honest with them and I ask that they return the favor. The big problem between Aspies and normals in my experience and from my formal studies and informal experiences here, seems to be communication. For me the question is how much do you really care about the person. I make have to put a lot of effort into my friendships and so do my friends and it can be quite difficult. I do not tell people I have Aspergers Syndrome unless they ask, but I do try to clearly communicate my needs and to explain my faults in advance.

I feel that the important thing is to tell the truth about how you feel, and to ask for the same. It is vitally important in any relationship with any person with any disorder to have the facts at hand. Ask questions, seek help in understanding, and then make a choice. And above all be willing to be patient and put some work into the friendship.

If you don't think knowing the person is worth that kind of effort, than you are probably right, and should just let the whole thing slide. If something "gels", than it is my opinion that it "gelled" because both elements were willing to give it a shot, if not, then one or both weren't interest. Cool either way. Everybody has to make their own decisions about everything.

There are people who I am friendly with who know very little about me, and people I've blown off entirely. It just depends on how much you care about someone and whether or not you want them to get to know you.

And that is up to you.