Standing up to people

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Does anyone else have difficulty standing up to people? I never know what to say and, being classic autistic female, I want to be nice. But I don't like being trampled on either. Last week someone was bullying to me on a support group forum, but in a way that felt quite subtle to me (one comment was, "I just can't understand why on earth you did that!" Implication being she was great and I was stupid) and I just let her get away with it then felt rubbish and peed off I hadn't stood up to her. In the end I just deleted the whole thread, which meant I lost out on any helpful replies anyone else might have given. I really wish I'd said something to stand up for myself better, but I never know if I'm going to come across as a bully myself. Does anyone else have this issue?

Let me preface by saying that I am incredibly confident in who I am as a person, so this makes it very difficult to offend me, but at the same time, I am very timid and avoid confrontation at all costs.

I have great difficulty standing up to people. Here's what happened the last 3 times I tried:

1. Guy cut in front of me in the grocery store line. I said "what the hell man, there's a line" and then he screamed at me until security had to take him away.

2. I told a coworker (I was managing the department at the time) to stop stalling and do the assigned work. He proceeded to scream at me and offered me an invitation to "take it outside and settle this"... I did not accept the offer. It's been a year and he still refuses to look me in the eyes or speak a single word to me.

3. A guy cut me off while driving and I sped up and got back in front of him. He then followed me for about 15 minutes until I got out to go to the bank... at which time he got out of his car, screaming, and tried to fight me. I declined the fight by apologizing and backing off with my tail between my legs.

So yeah... there's a definite downside to standing up to people because people are CRAZY. best to let it wash off you, like water off a duck's back.

What I've found a lot of times is that people walk around in a daze, like they're preoccupied. And when I confront them, it's as if they come out of their trance first before they can process a real person interacting with them.

Online is a bit different for obvious reasons. What I've seen others do successfully is to make some low-key reply that is tangential to the facts as a way to stand their ground but at the same time disengage, because the usual response is going to be emotional and not logical.

IRL, if someone is going about their normal routine, they may be in a trance and may not have even been processing the event consciously, so whatever facts you bring up, they'll just dismiss or say the facts are something else. Because they weren't paying attention, they may not know what really happened anyway.

No crazies yet, but I know they're out there.

Cat Ghost: you get into some crazy situations! LOL

At my job, that guy would have been fired on the spot. He was SCREAMING at you, and challenged you to a fight? Incredible that the guy is still employed there!

And that person at the grocery store--Tin Foil Hat Time!

I do see your point though. Sometimes, one has to assess the situation, and be cautious.

Pick your battles. Sometimes, there's no use in "standing up for yourself" amongst strangers.

F*ck that, if you let someone bully you they're just going to continue doing so. Never let someone walk all over you, put up a fight. If you get your ass beat make sure to at least get in good licks so the bully will think twice the next time. The #1 cause of bully-ism is people not standing up for themselves, it's like blood in the water. I don't like fighting and I'm not aggressive, but if someone gets in my face and "wants to take it outside" you better believe I'll be outside waiting. As for online, forget about that crap, people say all kinds of useless invalidating statements online just because they can with no reprisal. Ignore them and move on, which also happens to be the only effective solution to killing an internet troll.

Of course I believe in standing up for myself.

But if I want to fight some guy because he cut in ahead of me, then I'd get into lots of fights.

You do have to let the guy know what he did was screwy--but it's not worth getting into a fight over this. Especially since, in NYC, we'd both be arrested for mutual-combat assault should the cops be called. And I work for NYC, and would get fired upon my arrest, lose my pension, etc.

Yeah...picking your battles...

I wouldn't call myself a punk for not fighting in this instance. I'd call myself smart.

Not all fighting is physical, in fact verbal fighting is more common than physical-- but it's all fighting. I had a more nuanced statement, but cloudflare stole it and I don't feel like typing it again.

Sometimes, it's worth it to argue--other times, it's not worth it.

Think about it: how did the women get control of the treasury (in Lysistrata)?

Through wiles and subtlety and avoiding wasteful arguments/fights.

I used to have trouble doing it, but I don't now. I start out nice if they are nice, but I'm firm. You can try "I'm sorry but I don't really see it that way, I think...." or maybe "Thank you, but...." or just look at them and smile and say "Bless your heart".

If they are mean then why would you want them to like you and why would you want to be nice? I give back exactly what somebody else gives me unless I'm trying to diffuse a situation and then I purposefully act much nicer than I am and agree with whoever I have to agree with to get the outcome I want.

It's hard the first time you do it, but it gets easier. Now I do it as a matter of course and I've even stood up for my husband a few times when things got physical and he doesn't really fight, although he's bigger than me. It was with guys who were about to hurt him and I just pulled a knife. They were unarmed and backed off. But you want to keep your standing up for yourself verbal at first. Or always, depending on you.

Just think up some comebacks. Think of s**t folks have said to you and some things you could have said. THink up a general all purpose one or two and practice them and then USE ONE. Use it on somebody you will never see again at first, and you will feel much better. OR try standing up to your own family first if they are s**ts. If you have good friends get them to help you and do some practicing with you.

You can do it, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it and you will never have to be a doormat again.

Yes. I have trouble, too, especially at work, to our Director. She is notorious for throwing last minute assignments at people because the corporate office throws them at her. I don't know how to separate the task from the disruption so I end up putting the task off because I don't like how it was delivered. I'm not sure how to stand up for myself in this situation.

My experience: you stand up for your presumed right not to be bullied, the bully stands up harder for his right to bully you. Harder than you can---he's bullying you because he's stronger than you after all.

Kick him in the BeJesus! That'll get rid of the bully real fast!

When I was a young and naive teacher, my principal once threw a stapler at my head and screamed at me to get out of his office. I wrote off the experience thinking that he had had a bad day but the truth of the matter was that he was a power hungry jerk. The PTO had donated money to purchase typewriters for teacher use. Keep in mind that this was back in the days when we made carbon copies and ran "ditto" machines that we'd prime with purple ink. Ditto machines were popular in the days before photocopiers were commonly available.

The principal took this money and used it to redecorate his office and some teachers (NOT including yours truly) protested ... alleging that he had misappropriated funds. On the day he threw a stapler at me, he had just become aware that some of the teachers on campus had taken issue with the fact that he had remodeled his office using donated funds. After screaming at me to get out of his office, he bellowed for his two vice-principals who came running.

The principal was so angry that I could hear him outside the office. He ordered the vice-principals to come up with a schedule so that every teacher who had complained would be observed every day. On the day that teacher messed up ... and let's face it, we ALL have bad days ... THAT day was used as the teacher's professional evaluation.

By the end of the school year, every teacher who had DARED to challenge the principal was gone.

Years later I was in another district. The principal had called me into her office to complain about my unsanitary kitchen. Insofar as the health inspector had literally JUST inspected my commercially licensed Culinary Arts kitchen and had given us a PERFECT SCORE, I didn't understand why the principal thought my kitchen was dirty.

It turned out that she didn't like the hard water stains on the steel food prep tables. She wanted them removed. When I pointed out that hard water stains were the mineral residue of tap water and had nothing to do with sanitation, she SCREAMED AT ME TO SHUT UP and ORDERED ME to use a chemical cleaner to remove the stains. When I told her that I couldn't because this would be in violation of the state health code which said that the residue of chemical cleaners is toxic and may not be left on the work surface of any food prep work surface, she accused me of being insubordinate and screamed at me to get out of her office and to go do my "damn job."

I did my job by printing out the relevant health code, highlighting it in yellow, and making a beeline for the superintendent's office. The superintendent promptly called the principal and told her that she could not order the chef to break state law.

The next day I received my professional evaluation. I had gone from exceeding expectations (from the year before) to needs improvement. The evaluation alleged that I was an unfit teacher, that I was rude, argumentative, insubordinate, and not a team player. It further said that I was unable to "accept constructive criticism." It even said that my kitchen was "filthy" and "unsanitary."

I finished out the school year and resigned. Shortly thereafter I found myself unemployed. Try as I might, I couldn't get a teaching job anywhere. I couldn't figure out why until a kind administrator told me that my former supervisor was "bad mouthing" me. She had alleged in reference checks that I was a horrible teacher and no one would interview me as a result.

I had to retain an attorney. I sued the district, the principal, and the school board for defamation AND violation of the state's whistle blower's act since it was illegal for the principal to use a teacher's evaluation as a punitive tool in retaliation for my refusal to violate the state health code by using delimer on food prep tables.

The principal promptly backed off and I was finally able to get another job. Having gotten another job, I dropped the lawsuit. I sometimes wonder if I did the right thing in dropping this suit since the principal was a horrible person.

At my current school, the office manager took a dislike to me. I don't know why. On two separate occasions she's screamed at me and has physically blocked me from leaving because I HAD TO LISTEN TO HER.

Please note that I did not self diagnose as an aspie until last year and did not have my diagnosis confirmed until last April. Since knowledge brings power, I complained to my building administrator. I told her that I was autistic and requested a "reasonable accommodation" under the provisions of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The principal ordered the office manager NOT to initiate any contact with me ... and I was encouraged to bring another teacher with me (usually my department chair) on those occasions when I have to talk to the office manager. The cooperating teacher is with me for moral support and knows that I'm an aspie. He's also there as a witness should the office manager decide to unload upon me yet again. Thus far she has made an effort to be exceedingly polite ... but we will see.

In reading this thread, I agree with what others have said. Sometimes you have to pick and choose which battles to fight.

A rapidly dying perspective. I'd rather get the s**t kicked out of me then back down. Someone threatens me, I'm going to make them follow through. Most people who talk like that are just trying to intimidate you and have zero intention/ability to actually follow through.

Ah the great equalizer.

Sorry, that was YOU?

Guess maybe saying that I'm the guy who does this sort of thing (somewhat often) wouldn't be appropriate huh?