Diagnosis Process Is Making Me Anxious

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Yes, I remember your comments well.

In fact, I felt inadequate in responding to you.

You explained an aspect of MENSA to me that I didn't know, thank you.

I'm happy for you; the situation was excellent.

And people need to be met in person; they might get along great at first, but upon meeting them, maybe not.

I've always been lucky in that regard, with long-lasting, solid relationships.
The last one lasted 162 months.

Sharing something with your partner is essential.

Mine has a remarkable IQ and skills in many things.
She hates math.

Over time, you need to reduce the number of verbal interactions and try to leave spaces for communication, even silence.

Sometimes you have to know things by having experienced them.
Not just by having read about them or seen aspects of them.

I believe many scientists were part of MENSA.

I also believe Isaac Asimov.

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A thousand thanks

I was nervous about my diagnosis exam as well, but I was immediately made to feel most at ease. While waiting in the waiting room, I got to listen to a couple preparing for marriage counseling as they contemplated divorce. The waiting room had a large water fountain for relaxation. When I was taken to the room, I was surprised that it had the stereotypical couch in it. I didn't lay down on it, but just sat there. I was diagnosed using two different tests, the DSM-IV and the ICD-10. I was also evaluated according to my history and a lot of questions.

After it was over, I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. I then underwent several sessions of therapy. I learned how to better engage eye contact -- by looking at people by focusing on the bridge of the nose rather than their eyes. I still struggle with this. I also learned some techniques about engaging social interaction better. I was also worked with about being able to share my emotions and sharing my feelings better.

^^

Hi!
From your description, it sounds like a psychoanalysis office.
The presence of the couch and other people who weren't specifically autistic, but their counseling was about marriage.
*The fountain idea is nice!
Indeed, the slow flow of water is an element that relaxes people.

Especially autistic people.
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I see a nice avatar image.
From the way you described the manuals, you have the pre-2013 DSM 4 diagnosis and the pre-2019 ICD 10.

Which, in my opinion, makes more sense than the DSM 5 ICD 11 diagnosis.

Let's see, among other things, what I like about your post

Whoever diagnosed you used both manuals.

They usually use one of the two.

Even though specialists know both, eh!
I noticed they often have to consult them on this topic.

But I like people who do their research precisely.

The gaze.

A priest friend of mine chooses a person in church to give homilies.

He looks them between the eyes (between the eyes!), then continues to do so to direct their gaze.

Then he switches people: this is his strategy.
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It's normal for you to have difficulties.
Because those social skills interventions should be offered to the child's parents right away.

This basically requires that the diagnostic system exists and works.

It works poorly because diagnoses are late.

And at least in Italy, there are three diagnostic lines.

One for children (NPI), one for adults and others, but which doesn't include extensive training in this area for doctors, and a specific one: they're called centers for pervasive developmental disorders.

Those are excellent, but after you come of age, you no longer exist for them.

They refer to mental health centers: where you find inadequate medical professionals.

Which causes harm: hence the stress.

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Another stress was that the diagnosis took over 8 months.

I've taken so many of those tests.

The initial one lasted 2 hours: that's when they diagnosed me with Asperger's.

The doctor told me: right from the start, because he was an eye-tracking expert and a scientific researcher; he has the patent.
But he's not the only one.

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Emotions and feelings: that would be impossible for me; I'm alexithymic.
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I read everywhere that most diagnoses are made very quickly.

In terms of timing.

Not here.

Unless you turn to the private sector and pay for it.

Now: paying for an autism diagnosis is considered fraud here.

If you pay, you get something.
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What doctors don't tell you is that diagnoses can also be made using the DSM-IV and ICD-10.

It's still possible.

In my case, I have diagnoses with both DSM-IV and ICD-10.

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In Italy, the DSM-IV wasn't used until 1980, but the manual was the ICD.

Then we adopted 3 of them + 2 manual appendices all at once!

And in 1994, the DSM-IV.

Since 2013, the DSM-V.

^^

Thank you for the in-depth reply on my post, I really appreciate that.

As to sounding like a psychoanalysis office, the philosophy there was explained to me as being Jungian.

Thank for the comment on the avatar -- a younger me.

You are right on the DSM and ICD, they were pre 2013 and 2019 respectively.

Although I was told I could be diagnosed using the DSM, the ICD was used to double confirm Asperger's -- at least that's what I think.

The eye contact was always challenging for me. I would be called an eye dodger. As soon as someone looks me in the eyes, I feel like some unseen hand is forcing me to either turn my head or make my eyes look the other way.

I had no idea how it was in Italy.

Eight months is a long time to get a diagnosis. I think I would've given up. I just wanted to know why I was the way I was. I used to think I was some "one of a kind" eccentric until I learned of Asperger's. When I read about it, I felt like I was reading my biography.

The projection of emotions is very difficult for me. Even though I feel the emotions, I am poor at relating them unless I do some kind of Hollywood acting skill.

My insurance would've paid for my diagnosis, but I chose to pay out of pocket -- I don't know why. I just felt like it was none of the insurance company's business to know if I was on the spectrum or not.

I didn't realize they were still accepting the DSM IV and ICD 10. I am glad to hear that because I feel like it's better than the updated ones. Like me, you were diagnosed using both of those.

Hi!
I read your reply.
I don't have time to reply now.
Yes: I was wondering why Carl Gustav Jung looked to Sigmund Freud for psychoanalysis. Even though he later diverged. Analytical psychology.
His biography is wonderful.
His anti-Nazi history is equally as wonderful.
Jung was also interested, especially for the purposes of his work, throughout his life in spiritualism, the paranormal, spiritism, shamanism, astrology, the history of religions, ufology, alchemy, quantum physics, and esotericism. His collaboration with the scientist Wolfgang Pauli is well-known.
Wolfgang Pauli, if I'm not mistaken, was the Nobel Prize winner in 1945... he was interested in quantum mechanics. In Italy, the Jungian orientation of psychoanalysis was introduced by Ernst Bernhard. He lived in Italy for 30 years.
Along with Paul Watzlawick, they are among the leading Jungian figures I admire most.
Watzlawick *An exceptional person!

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Yes: I find the image beautiful.
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Also the way you write.
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I also tried pre-diagnosis psychoanalysis.
Hypnosis.
Di Nardone therapies based on the unique experience I had with Watzlawick. EMDR.
Other psychological therapies because I didn't accept ideas that involved pharmacological use.

Sorry for the off-the-cuff reply.

Post Scriptum: (La tua immagine è calma bella e rilassante)

@Glider18

Yes: they evaluated from two manuals.
Paradoxically, I'm now much more familiar with the DSMs than with the ICDs.
That is: in Italy, we replaced the ICDs in 1980 and oriented ourselves after a reform called the Basaglia Law of 1978, if I'm not mistaken.
I'm going from memory.
In that year, practically all approaches to both syndromes and psychiatric problems changed.
With this change, there was also a significant recourse to psychopharmacological containment.
Sorry, I don't want to write a "treatise" on the matter.

But 1978 in Italy was a year of epochal changes in the psychiatric sector.

Mental hospitals were closed following the approval of Law 180/78, and people who no longer had any relationship with society were released into physical and social "freedom." For them, society was a completely different dimension.
Families who still had the means to care for their loved ones suddenly had the burden of caring for them, hence the intensive pharmacological containment.
In addition to the TSO (forced hospitalizations).
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Clearly, they wanted to bring about a medical revolution to benefit the freedom of the sick.
But they also did damage.

I won't post videos consistent with what I write because they are in Italian and you would see unpleasant images.
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Perhaps I could find some good ones that don't contain them.
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Franco Basaglia was a psychiatrist and a neurologist (two different degrees are now required because the exams distinguish the two roles): certainly the most important in Italy of the last century.
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This shortly preceded the intensive use of the DSM.

In 1980, five were admitted (three DSM and two appendices).
Then the fourth in 1994 and the fifth in 2013.
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Before, only the ICDs were used as a point of reference.
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Although Bleuler officially reported on autism in 1911, our assessment process (AUtism) began only after the brilliant Lorna Wing in 1981.

Then the 1994 DSM-4 manual led us to better define, in my opinion, than we do now, what we autistics are and that we exist as a syndrome, a spectrum of autism.
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Afterward, a major change in diagnostics followed, which I would call epochal.
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Even today, autism is little studied by professionals outside of our specific specialties.

While, as I know, in France, they're way, way behind in this field, still relying on Lacanian theories.
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Sorry for the digressions.
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I'm returning to the post-Freudian diagnosis in psychoanalysis.

And in analytic psychoanalysis.
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The couch you describe is typical of that diagnostic and therapeutic orientation, but it's not suitable for us autistic people.

For example, in my case, other forms of psychological therapy aren't suitable either, as I, an alexithymic, image-thinker, lack the foundations needed to benefit from them.

However, I think it's difficult to understand and relevant to autistic people.
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Although extremely interesting,
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Anyway, whoever worked on your diagnosis back then did a good and thoughtful job.
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The feeling of coming from a family with an above-average level of education.
Or, in any case, with an uncommon open-mindedness for those years.
Assuming you were diagnosed in the early 2000s or thereabouts.
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Asperger's syndrome and the eccentricity you describe.
It would be interesting to understand what you mean by eccentricity: I tend to rely on literal definitions, and this is sometimes misleading for me!
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I could understand what you mean.
That you fully agree with the Asperger's diagnosis.
Yes: I understand the rest about emotions and how you reprocess them, because we reprocess them even if we understand little about them.

The photo looks to me like a leap back to 1977.
From your 1977.
Maybe I'm dating it wrong.
Beautiful because it's very serene.
And the gaze is focused on the person taking it.
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I have some like that too, others are a disaster because I can't appear natural if I realize the photo was taken.
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In fact, the best ones were taken either over multiple shots or when they weren't posed.
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Dwelling on a photo seems pointless, but it isn't.
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So my diagnoses are many and span the time span of the two DSMs 4 and 5 and the two ICDs 10 and 11.

The former had a shorter diagnostic time span.
And to me, they seemed lacking in validity.
Because you see, I knew people in the forums who, for me, were emblematic of autistic Asperger's.

The thing they wrote to me, even privately, was that I was like them.

My response was that yes, I had a diagnosis, but I wasn't at their level, which I considered very pervasive.
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When I deleted my post and left the forum, many moderators and users wrote that the three of us were extremely similar.
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The forum wasn't for autistic people, but for psychology.
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So, among 30,000 members, many realized that we were different from them.
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This led me to other increasingly detailed diagnoses.
Until one based on scientific research from 2018/19.

And it's the most detailed diagnosis I've ever seen.

The one based on 8 months of time and countless tests.
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I also wanted to give up, but the doctors immediately wanted me there.

The first basic diagnostic session lasted 2 hours.
And the person who did it also published in Science and other international journals.

Then the next step was the very precise classification.

And the diagnostic tests.

The classification in HFA level two.

Which for me is very different from Asperger's, even if they are now grouped into subsets.
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Even research after 2017 disambiguates them as not identical.

For me, it's more attributable to Asperger's syndrome.

They based themselves on the manuals, obviously.

Then there were others afterward in which comorbid disorders and the term Asperger's Syndrome appeared.

Yes: I understand why you chose not to involve your insurance.

It will take you about 16 hours to decipher my post, but I won't be on the forum for long anyway.

I feel like my presence here is running out, even if I'm posting for now, then I feel like I won't log in again.

I see you've been here since 2008. I only read part of your screen, and I never go beyond that because I feel like I'm violating people's privacy.

The registration numbers, time, and date are very specific.
Now the posts.
All random, obviously, but it's such a unique numerical structure.
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Your photo and your presence here are very long; you've been here almost since the forum's inception, which I assume dates back to 2006, also based on its layout and structure.
It served as a model for its sister forum in Italy, which we tested in 2011. It still exists, though it's open to anyone, and therefore has mediocre value compared to the superlatives of its early days.
Even though the project has evolved into something rather extensive and interesting.

However, you continue to return.

Years ago, I wrote that people like you are useful because they don't detract from the value of the forums they belong to and don't leave, usually to help others.

Huck Finn

Oh, many experiences, thanks for sharing.

To Huckleberry Finn with your quotes.

The couch you describe is typical of that diagnostic and therapeutic orientation, but it's not suitable for us autistic people.

Agree. That was one thing I found a bit uncomfortable. I was sitting on the right side of the couch and Sigmund Freud (LOL) was sitting to my left on the couch.

For example, in my case, other forms of psychological therapy aren't suitable either, as I, an alexithymic, image-thinker, lack the foundations needed to benefit from them.

If I understand you correctly, you have a sort of emotional blindness? With me, I feel the emotions with no problem, just feel very awkward in sharing my emotions.

Anyway, whoever worked on your diagnosis back then did a good and thoughtful job.

Yes, he did. I had to send a lot of information by email first. The appointment lasted at least an hour if I remember correctly.

The feeling of coming from a family with an above-average level of education.
Or, in any case, with an uncommon open-mindedness for those years.
Assuming you were diagnosed in the early 2000s or thereabouts.

My father was a sort of math savant. He could multiply two four digit numbers in his head quicker than people could punch in into a calculator. He was famous in our town for that. He taught in college. I am also a teacher. I was diagnosed just before I joined Wrongplanet in 2008. That was a very busy week for me. I had gotten a new tattoo that week (eighth), had my appointment, and then joined Wrongplanet all in one week.

It would be interesting to understand what you mean by eccentricity

For example, how my friends in school centered their attention around socializing. I on the other hand favored my interests like house plans and roller coasters. I preferred being alone. When I would get into social gatherings I would feel out of place and awkward. I still do. I would find myself daydreaming into my interests a lot. I still maintained good grades in school because it came easy. But I would draw roller coaster and house plans on my school papers and stuff. Also, I always tended to act very grown up, and in many instances more mature than the adults even in the lower grades.

The photo looks to me like a leap back to 1977.

My mother took that picture of me. I believe it was taken in either 1974 or 1975, so you're about spot on. You know, the pictures back in the 70s were challenged in my opinion. Cameras went to a different type of film for the novice or casual photographers. We had Polaroids, Kodak cartridge film models, etc. And a trend in prints was "satin finish" which killed the clarity. While there were a lot of pictures of me, there were few that were of a higher quality. The one on my avatar you are commenting on was actually a full profile picture on satin finish taken with a Kodak Instamatic with 126 cartridge film. I cropped it to my face. The other photo I used on here after I joined was taken with either the same Kodak but with a gloss finish. And that photo was the best photo of me by my mother -- it was clear, and close up enough to show my facial features like the one on here now. It was taken around the same time after a trip to Myrtle Beach and Mom wanted me to show off my tan, so it was a shirtless shot. I remember one poster here seemed appalled because of the tan and obvious non use of sunscreen -- well this was the 70s, we didn't use sunscreen, and we boys often went around with our shirts off and no sunscreen. To not have a tan back then made people feel you weren't healthy.

I have some like that too, others are a disaster because I can't appear natural if I realize the photo was taken.

Oh my -- that began happening to me for my class photo of 1977. I couldn't smile then to save my life. Because of the disastrous attempt at smiling photo, I haven't smiled but in a couple formal photos since.

So my diagnoses are many and span the time span of the two DSMs 4 and 5 and the two ICDs 10 and 11.

The former had a shorter diagnostic time span.
And to me, they seemed lacking in validity.
Because you see, I knew people in the forums who, for me, were emblematic of autistic Asperger's.

The thing they wrote to me, even privately, was that I was like them.

My response was that yes, I had a diagnosis, but I wasn't at their level, which I considered very pervasive.

I recall a lot of talk about that kind of stuff back in the early days here. There were a lot of members who didn't have a formal diagnosis, and the ones with formal ones always seemed to be regarded with a higher status. Back then I got the impression that having Asperger's that was officially diagnoses was akin to being a member of a country club.

The forum wasn't for autistic people, but for psychology.

Yes -- we were all trying to over-analyze ourselves. We were questioning everything about our diagnosis. It was like we kept studying all for he psychological trademarks of autism to see it we fit. It almost seemed like a lot of people were looking for anything about themselves to show they were autistic.

This led me to other increasingly detailed diagnoses.
Until one based on scientific research from 2018/19.

And it's the most detailed diagnosis I've ever seen.

The one based on 8 months of time and countless tests.

Oh gee, I don't think I could get through that.

The first basic diagnostic session lasted 2 hours.
And the person who did it also published in Science and other international journals.

That sounds sweet. That reminds me, I was part of a study once -- had forgotten about that.

Then the next step was the very precise classification.

Yes, I remember back in the day a lot of members were discussing if they were Asperger's or HFA. They are different.

I feel like my presence here is running out, even if I'm posting for now, then I feel like I won't log in again.

Oh please don't leave. You are enjoyable and fun to post with.

I see you've been here since 2008. I only read part of your screen, and I never go beyond that because I feel like I'm violating people's privacy.

I appreciate your respect. But I don't feel like that would be invading my privacy.

However, you continue to return.

Yes, I come and go, but always come back. And there has been drama. I have had some serious run-ins with several members over the years that had become abusive, and they ended up getting banned.

Years ago, I wrote that people like you are useful because they don't detract from the value of the forums they belong to and don't leave, usually to help others.

I've always felt it important to look for the positives, though I have to take my own medicine sometimes.

Thank you for the in-depth post. With everything I've written back to you, I apologize for not proofreading it for mistakes.