How to persuade people to turn away from bigotry?

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Mona Pereth
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04 Oct 2025, 12:13 am

cyberdora wrote:
^^^ I mean Socratic questioning wouldn't have worked in Australian campuses in the 1980s. Gay men were all accused of spreading AIDS in university colleges.

My on-campus gay rights activism occurred shortly before the AIDS crisis. This indeed made it easier than it would have been during the AIDS crisis.

However, when the AIDS crisis hit, gay male culture changed. There were a lot of efforts within the gay community to promote safe sex practices. Also, many gay men stopped picking up men in bars and baths and sought ongoing relationships instead. Here in the U.S.A. at least, this resulted in a great organizational expansion of the gay rights movement, because one of the places where a lot of gay men looked for potential longterm partners was in gay rights activist groups.

If I were in college during the AIDS crisis of the 1980's, I think my Socratic approach would still have worked, although it would have been a bit more complicated. I would have had to have pointed to the then-recent changes in gay male culture and asked questions like, "Do you have a problem with those gay men who are careful about safe sex? If so, what is your issue with them?"

In today's world there seems to be, overall, much less bigotry against lesbians and gay men than there was back then, but, at the same time, I get the feeling that the remaining anti-gay bigots are much more closed-minded and intransigent.

I also get the feeling that Socratic dialog is generally less likely to happen now, and that people in general have become more closed-minded due to the advent of social media.


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Mona Pereth
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04 Oct 2025, 1:04 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
Teach them how expensive racism can be when everything they say or do or are a part of becomes public and suddenly they lose their jobs and have trouble finding new ones because companies want nothing to do with what they stand for.

F around and find out.

Hmm, I don't think this actually makes people less racist. It just makes them more covert about it.


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BTDT
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04 Oct 2025, 6:50 am

I'm 5ft2in 104lbs, AMAB and wear very feminine clothes at the golf course. Yesterday It was cold at the start so I work my hot pink pants paired with a white/pink jacket. Normally I pick clothes that fit me perfectly but these pants were an inch long and I'm too busy with other stuff to hem them. I do have a special sewing machine called a coverstitch machine for hemming stretching fabrics but haven't used it in years.

I learn very fast and play a lot so my golf game is better than most of the people I play with.
Yesterday an insurance executive admitted he declined to play with me after his round because my game was so much better than his! We talked after his round and before I went around for another round of 9holes of golf. Instead I played with a guy in a cart while I walked. This is hard because someone in a cart can play much faster but my game is up to doing that!

I once explained that I find it better to dress as a female and be gendered as female than to wear a full beard and be misgendered as a woman by the TSA in an airport.



Bataar
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04 Oct 2025, 11:55 am

What do you consider to be racist? My view is that people shouldn't be treated differently based on their race. A person's race shouldn't be taken into consideration when making a decision or judgement about them. A person shouldn't face hardships that are explicitly due to their race nor should they receive any benefits. Race should be irrelevant. Does that view make me racist?



Mona Pereth
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07 Oct 2025, 1:16 am

Bataar wrote:
What do you consider to be racist? My view is that people shouldn't be treated differently based on their race. A person's race shouldn't be taken into consideration when making a decision or judgement about them. A person shouldn't face hardships that are explicitly due to their race nor should they receive any benefits. Race should be irrelevant. Does that view make me racist?

On a personal level, simply ignoring race is probably the best approach. Just treat people as people.

On an institutional level, in my opinion, systemic racism cannot be undone by simply ignoring it. But that's not the intended topic of this thread. The intended focus of this thread is on personal bigotry/prejudice and how to counteract that, not on what should or shouldn't be done about systemic racism.


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BTDT
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07 Oct 2025, 6:20 am

Getting out there and interacting bigots one at time is one way to do it.
There are only a few bigots. Most people are sort of indifferent but don't want to challenge the bigots.

I pass as a woman so I could simply blend in but I've chosen not to do that.
Instead I wear clothes that a lot of genetic woman wish they could wear.



frollpoff
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12 Oct 2025, 4:52 pm

I don't think I would be successful at attempting to turn people away from bigotry - at least I haven't when I've reacted to it.

I feel there's still remnants of internalized bigotry due to upbringing, the type of people I grew up around - basically there have been very few people in my life who weren't white cis-gendered. In the late eighties/nineties, growing up, school and college was awash with the casual varieties of racism, sexism, homophobia, and ablism, but there were a few good teachers, a few good friends, and a few good peers, who've influenced me throughout my life towards becoming more accepting of different people such that it's something I try to achieve.

The practical side is a problem, I just have never found myself amongst people of different cultures/races/skin colours/sexualities frequently enough to feel entirely comfortable and not awkward. Although I experience awkwardness with everyone, even people I should supposedly consider my own group. That's the social difficulties autism presents to me, and being late diagnosed autistic, not knowing until the end of my forties.

Included with the social difficulties, is difficulty managing my own internal responses; because I do try and learn about these things I get triggered by casual bigotry from (for example) co-workers. Especially the type who push it repeatedly throughout the day on a daily basis. One day I get sick of their s**t and just snap losing my temper.



uncommondenominator
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13 Oct 2025, 12:43 am

One major problem with getting people to "turn away from bigotry" is that to them, it's not "bigotry" - to them it's just "truth". Getting them to "turn away from bigotry" end up tantamount to getting them to "deny the truth" or "ignore facts". Trying to educate them on the reality of the matter just gets taken as an attempt to "re-educate" them, a la propaganda and/or "brainwashing". Any time someone does learn the error of their ways, they get branded as propagandized and brainwashed.

Some members have expressed some *interesting* beliefs about the composition of american schools, which, despite being dubious, do manage to raise a valid point. Kids - or adults - who don't interact regularly with diverse groups of people, are more likely to believe ridiculous ideas about those groups, if for no other reason than their ignorance about those people.

Combine that with any sort of feelings of being disenfranchised, and pretend to be their bestest buddy, and you can get people to commit all kinds of atrocities against people they've been taught it's ok to do it towards.



Sable Noctis
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13 Oct 2025, 1:46 am

Yeah, it’s always interesting to see how someone can spend their whole life believing one thing, and then — through experience, empathy, or just really listening — start to see the cracks in what they were taught. It takes a lot of courage to question the walls you were raised inside, but when you do, it can completely change how you see the world.

But that’s the thing — why try to force someone into changing their beliefs at all? That’s kind of what it feels like the OP is doing, using a third-party video from someone with a very specific religious background to make a point. Everyone’s entitled to their own path, and growth shouldn’t come from pressure or guilt — it should come from reflection and genuine understanding.

It reminds me how much of our world is still stuck in binary thinking — this constant “us vs. them,” “right vs. wrong,” “for or against” mindset. Everything gets turned into a fight between two sides, and when that happens, there’s barely any space left for listening, understanding, or actual growth, this is all also also known as tribalism.

That’s why I’ve been exploring something I call trinary thinking. It’s not about taking sides or trying to sit in the middle — it’s about finding that third space beyond the argument. A space where contradictions can exist without tearing each other apart, where empathy has room to breathe, and where new ideas can form without needing to erase the old ones.

I’m neither right nor left wing, and honestly, I’m doing just fine that way. Maybe if more people stepped out of that endless tug-of-war, they’d find a bit of peace too.


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13 Oct 2025, 4:49 am

That is what I do. I cross dress because it seems to be the best choice for me. Then I play golf because it is fun.
If they get my gender wrong I'll tell them. I may even tell them why. Women's XS clothes fits me perfectly. I have an petite hourglass figure with a thin waist. Women's XS clothes are cheap! I buy very nice clothes so people treat me better.

I'm too small for men's clothes and boy's clothes aren't designed for someone with my figure.
Some of my clothes look better on me than on the model used to sell them as I have the curves envisioned by the designer.



Mona Pereth
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16 Oct 2025, 11:14 pm

John Corvino - What's Morally Wrong with Homosexuality? on the YouTube channel of John Corvino:



From the description on YouTube:

Quote:
In this widely presented lecture (recorded here in 2007), John Corvino dismantles common arguments against same-sex relationships, including those based on nature, harm, and religion.


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