Son Asking for Social Security Number

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Heads or Tails, it is still a quarter.

In other words, it doesn't matter if one thinks oneself as a victim or survivor. Others still make the rules, set the standards, guard the doors and have the keys. It doesn't matter what I believe about myself or what I don't. It doesn't matter whether I believe I can or cannot. In the end, others have a heavy hand as to what your circumstances will more then likely be. This is a truth that you and other conservative, personal responsibility advocate types can't deny.

Or, do I see the glass half full or half empty? My response: It doesn't matter how I see it. It still has water, air and other particulates in it. This is something that is independent of my thoughts and feelings. That's the answer that would be based in reality. Now, society's expected and correct response is to say half-full whether I believe it is or not. It is others who define the correct way I'm supposed to see it. So, why even bother to ask how I see it?

The dice are loaded.

I disagree with you. It may not matter what words you use, but it does matter how you feel. One is a path to loneliness or despair. The other is a path to satisfaction and purpose. How you feel drives what you project to the world, and what you project to the world drives how much of the population will view and react towards you. You are correct to note that you can’t fake it, and there will always be those people that are nasty to everyone, but in my experience how I feel very much changes what happens in my life. So yes it matters. A lot.

Yet, who are the designers and definers of these paths? Who and what gives life to these paths? And, who defines the reaction to what I project? Who or what defines what is acceptable or not? Same ppl who tell you to be true to yourself?

Whomever one must please for one's livelyhood becomes your lord and master.

In a Time of Universal Deceit — Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act

It’s not quite as bad as in 1984.....

Your statement isn't without merit, and I'm sure you meant well, but the way you worded it, it sounds like something a family therapist would say. We on this site know all too well how unhelpful family therapists are, especially if you're an aspie, and doubly so if you're a male aspie. Because most of them live in a dream world, and think that "feeeeeeelings", praising yourself in the mirror, and submitting yourself to authority figures are the answers to everything.

I agree with cubedemon6073 here. What "society" wants people to believe and the harsh reality are seldom, if ever, one and the same.

I can't in any reasonable amount of time address the concerns raised by Apsie1 and Cubedemon, and I won't claim they aren't valid. I do realize that because individuals with ASD often project in ways that other people cannot understand, a person could feel positive but fail in getting that energy out into the world or in getting a positive reaction from it. As you both have noted many times, no one can claim life is fair. But I can say that it does seem to be programmed into human nature to respond positively to positive energy, so if you can project that, things simply do go better. In general, people move towards people and situations that help them find peace and happiness, and away from negativity and despair. Even when people reach out to help others, they are seeking something positive: the feeling they increased the good in the world, and to tap into the energy you see in someone who is making a positive turn. In many ways, we feel what we surround ourselves by. The ability to accurately identify and manage this phenomenon is an intangible that ASD does seem to hinder, unfortunately. Another of those constant conversations and evaluations needed; it isn't going to be solved on a message board, and it isn't going to be solved in an hour at a therapist's office, although perhaps the right one could point you in a helpful direction.

I don't know if this will help, but maybe this can illustrate a little bit of what I mean. When I once commented to someone at my son's school how helpful I had found everyone at the school, and that I was surprised when I heard from parents who had had more difficult experiences, I was told that the reason we got such good help was because people knew they could work "with" us. That the energy they spent would be appreciated and effective.

You haven't fully convinced me, and probably never will. However... I did find that putting out high social desirability made it easy to form social connections. Like on my cruise, particularly with the woman I met at karaoke the first night. She liked my creative singing, invited me to sit with her, and the rest is history.

That said, my social stance wasn't exactly warmth fuzzies and puppy piles. It was more like an unspoken hardline, no-nonsense stance: "This is my cruise and my reality! You're a welcome guest, but you're still a guest!" She, in turn, dropped F-bombs, wore a revealing outfit, and looked like she'd have chewed me up and spit me out in college. But on that cruise, she thought I was cool, and treated me with respect and even deference. Her friends treated me the same way, although one man "challenged" me a little (poking fun/banter), but I quickly thwarted him. The warm fuzzies came later, when we all played beach volleyball and danced salsa.

Your statement is more about "positive energy", a tired NT maxim, rather than social desirability. But while they're not one and the same, they're not mutually exclusive, either. So I concede: you made a good point there.

It is true that conversations and evaluations are needed but are most people really going to listen though? And, are they going to listen without interrupting so much the conversation gets sidelined so far out into left field that I don't even get to make my point.

I don't see that happening and this is one main reason why I encourage to simply claim disability for them and not have them be in the workplace at all. IT DOES NOT WORK!! !! !! !! !! !! They need to do the things that they would do for those who were severely disabled and make it where they don't have to be employed.

And, a lot of people don't take our disability seriously anyway. Again, I think parents need to quit mainstreaming their autistic kids. It doesn't work. I would've rather been written off and institutionalized then mainstreamed and forced to be something I'm not.

I wish all institutions were like the one Rainman stayed in.

Many are hellholes.

I've seen a lot of success stories in my son's generation. We raised our ASD children with a whole different approach than previous generations, and I do believe it made a difference. Maybe I just need to believe that so that all my effort will feel worth it, but I don't think that is true. I really do believe it has all made a difference.

Helping an ASD child achieve success as an adult most definitely does require that parents and teachers take the time to really listen. Conversations cannot be one-sided. I'm not a patient person, and I'm not a great listener, but I had to force myself to be for my son's sake.

You've got your own unique journey to make but I do appreciate your listening.

Well that does give me some hope in a way.

Yet, he is still expected to "Play the part." In other words, he has to fake his way through life and he can't be his true self. It's not just parents and teachers. It's employers, police, and those around him. It is the average person as well. As in, society itself. It would require society itself to do a lot of the compromising not the person with a disability.

Honestly, it's simply not going to happen. Maybe your son can fake his way through life for a short while but in the end one can't go against one's true nature. And, that's all of the help from professionals do. To teach the autistic to go against his nature no matter how damaging it is. And, the truth a double minded person will not last.

Going back to the OP I still stand by my opinion that if the son is to immature to have his SS# then he's to immature for college and employment. Double Standards anyone?

Reviewing DW's posts again I need to get this off of my chest. I think parents with children with ASDs and other disabilities need to assume the worst when it comes to their children. And, that is that their children can't become independent. And, they need to do the things they need to do to prepare accordingly. Prospective parents need to think along these lines. And, if they can't afford to do this then they have no business having children.

This is called defense defensive pessimism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_pessimism

In addition, go through all the motions, be positive, and believe that they can until they get to a point in which they prove they cannot. If they reach this point then the parent is prepared with their defensive pessimistic strategy they implemented. If it turns out the child can and is successful and is able to be independent then this child has a nest egg stashed away for a back up just in case later they can't do it anymore. Especially, if the child feels he is being forced to pretend to be something he is not.

This is what parents fail to do and parents develop a bias towards the child and abilities.

If my mother used “defensive pessimism,” I wouldn’t be where I am today. I would be on permanent SSI.

I believe people should make optimal use of their abilities.

Many parents don’t have enough income to create that “nest egg.”

Maybe! Maybe not! But, the possibility exists that you could've ended up on SSI anyway. Kraftie, therein lies the issue right here. The problem with positivity and optimism is that no one thinks that the child may not be able to do it and no contingency plan is made. What if DW did all she could do for her child to get him to be independent and it still does not work?

These are things I think parents really need to sit down and discuss and really think through even before having a child especially in the USA. You can't just deny the negative and focus on the positive which is what the USA does. One has to look at the negative and think rationally and logically to come up with contingency plans and solutions.

The problem with positive thinking in general that our society demands is that people focus so much on the bright side that they never ask "what if it does not work?" Not just with disabilities. From there, no contingency plan is ever thought of. Can you truthfully express a negative thought or an issue with something without being called negative or others saying you're worrying to much? No, one can't. It has become socially unacceptable to express a negative though at all even if one is asking to put in a place a solution to a problem that others did not think of.

Sorry Kraftie if I'm ranting and have offended you my friend! I'm just frustrated that's all. I let myself get suckered into a debate on positivity on a different forum when I should've been doing more productive things. The problem with a mind (myself) who naturally thinks in this lateral way and has difficulty compartmentalizing his thoughts is that somethings that may be related but only in a minute way causes me to think back to the past. This whole positivity thing is one of the reasons I got out of America when I saw an opportunity.

And, with cases in Beijing hopefully I will be able to get out of Beijing to go where I got to go. With me luck and keep me in your thoughts and prayers if you believe in all of that. If not, just simply wish me luck with all of this.