[ POLL ] In Search Of A More Accurate Description.

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I don't think there's really anything to get upset over. This is a topic where there's not always a lot of agreement on what the proper definitions of these terms are, which I thought was the entire point of the thread, that there's confusion and disagreements about this. People are going to suggest ways to make definitions more understandable or suggest things they think people should know in regards to discussions about these topics. Anything anyone says that isn't actually necessary or useful can easily just be disregarded.

I agree that the simple terms are enough rather than simply increasing the number of terminology. Using my earlier description of gender identity I would just go:

Gender Identity: is one person's innermost concept of self as male, female, a blend of both or neither. It is how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One's gender identity can be the same (cis) or different (trans) from their sex assigned at birth.

And I would not necessarily have included a different gender expression as part of transgender. Instead I think that maybe that is a bit more Genderqueer, since a man could often present in a very feminine way, while considering themselves cis and not trans. A certain slang example is "femboy", and of course there are also tomboys, which I am honestly unsure they are reverse of each other or not.

Even if we just want basic easy to understand definitions that we can get everyone to agree on, I think that examples of sorts can be helpful, clear up confusion of things like people thinking transmen are just tomboys. Or people think that we are trying to say all tomboys are actually transmen. I do think that we can do without the scientific sound terms like gynotropic and androtropic, but I have observed people use terms like cis and trans as additions to gay, lesbian, straight and bi. Giving examples like.

Straight cis-man
lesbian trans-woman

Both were assigned male at birth, thus may have a penis, and both are interested in women, just that one identifies as a different gender.

And just if curious, I can't speak for everyone but a common non-binary version of man/woman and boy/girl is enby. Trans would probably normally be implied, and lables like straight, gay and lesbian are a bit finicky.

Discussing the definitions themselves doesn't bother me -- that's why I started this thread -- I would like to keep the definitions simple and without a lot of conditions and clauses.

It's when the discussion veers off into non-essential aspects like the order in which the definitions are presented that distracts from the purpose of the discussion -- that bothers me.

And so far, only one person out of ten has shown any significant disagreement with those definitions.[/color]

I don't mean to be difficult, but the purpose of this discussion is not to necessarily have a comprehensive list of the definitions of terms, it is to have an agreed upon understanding of words key to the LGBT discussion, which is why I think that the order could be relevant for someone coming in here while not understanding the differences.

But they are not the only notes I have given, like that trans does not mean transition. There was a reason I think saying "trans" and "cis" is relevant because they give a little insight into what is meant by the word transgender. They are prefixes using Latin, trans meaning "across from” or “on the other side of” and cis meaning "on this side of".

And unless someone disagrees with me, I don't think that a gender expression separate from one's gender norm means they are transgender.

I often get a bit nervous around these sorts of polls because I don't want to choose an option I will later regret choosing (or choosing any option and regretting leaving the poll blank).

I think I mostly agree with what your definitions, although I'd like to include Bradleigh's notes. You are both very assiduous and intellectually rigorous so I think by working together you can craft very good definitions, particularly with your different perspectives.

I think the one note I have is that the different aspects of sexual orientation you have outlined (sexual, romantic, etc.) are often broken down, and in some people may not align. Someone could be bisexual but heteroromantic, for example, or asexual but panromantic. But if that isn't within the scope of your original work then I think your definition is good.

That's why I allow for changing one's vote.If you can add Bradleigh's definitions as short, concise options that "flow" or "harmonize" with the others without conflict or contradiction, then please do so.

This may be off topic but maybe someone knows:

What's the term for when you feel like your body / physical self doesn't exist at all?

I wouldn't say it's derealisation because I know I actually do exist, but I have always felt that I'm just a floating mind.

My physical self isn't part of me one way or the other, so its sex / gender etc. doesn't matter.

My mind feels more female than male, but my body isn't even part of the equation.

Depersonalization.

Nope. I asked my psychologist about that several times, and he said no. I know "who I am" but my body isn't connected to my mind. I'm all thought. The rest is a weird appendage.

The world is real, I'm real, and my body is real ... I don't feel like anything is a dream. I'm just cerebral.

Sorry for derailing, Fnord. Just curious.