My church has been Columbined.

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Zsazsa
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27 Jul 2008, 4:12 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:

I am a member of two churches: one Catholic (because I'm Catholic) and one Unitarian (because all my friends go there).


You must be one of those new Roamin' Catholics, right?




As for the shooting that happened in your hometown, it further shows how violent our society truly has become...

Nice meeting you!



spudnik
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27 Jul 2008, 4:13 pm

And there is always going to be a copycat after things like this happen, its insane.
MissPickwickian, I don't view the religious right or extremest christians as being true christian, they live contrary to what it means to be a christian, an antichristian, and their actions are unchristian and filled with hate. I was raised as a catholic but became an agnostic, I admire what the unitarian church has been doing, by being tolerant and including people who are different, its something that is sorely missing from a lot of other denominations



Last edited by spudnik on 27 Jul 2008, 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bicentennialman
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27 Jul 2008, 4:15 pm

My goodness; that's awful, MissPickwickian. I am glad you weren't there. I just finished praying for your church and all of the people whose lives have been hurt by the evil that man has done.

You are right that we hear about these things happening, but we just don't think about them happening in our own lives (I certainly wasn't thinking about it this morning when I was at church).



MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 4:42 pm

bicentennialman wrote:
My goodness; that's awful, MissPickwickian. I am glad you weren't there. I just finished praying for your church and all of the people whose lives have been hurt by the evil that man has done.

You are right that we hear about these things happening, but we just don't think about them happening in our own lives (I certainly wasn't thinking about it this morning when I was at church).


You are too kind. I'm getting a bit of Isaac Bashevis Singer-style survivor guilt, though, and I almost feel like I should have been there.


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MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 4:44 pm

spudnik wrote:
And there is always going to be a copycat after things like this happen, its insane.
MissPickwickian, I don't view the religious right or extremest christians as being true christian, they live contrary to what it means to be a christian, an antichristian, and their actions are unchristian and filled with hate.


Yeah, pretty much.


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CelticRose
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27 Jul 2008, 5:32 pm

That's unspeakably horrible. I can't even begin to imagine what you and your fellow worshippers must be going through right now. I'll keep all of you in my prayers. :cry:


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Willard
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27 Jul 2008, 7:12 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I think America suffers from what I call the Charlton Heston Syndrome. If people weren't so psychotic about their right to bear arms, none of this pointless violence would ever happen.


I've come to expect this sort of smug, shallow, knee-jerk, "I-know-it-all-because-the-liberal-media-tells-me-so" spout-out from you, but it really would be nice if someone of your supposedly mature age would do a little thinking before he babbles. There are young impressionable minds here who will soak up that nonsense and actually believe it.

In your sacred homeland just last weekend:

Quote:
CTV: A man was gunned down in broad daylight in Halifax, there was a nightclub shooting in Winnipeg, and in Toronto four people died in gun violence over the weekend -- most tragically, an 11-year-old boy was caught in the crossfire of a gang shootout.
Other incidents in Toronto over the weekend included an execution-type slaying of a man who was shot four times in the head, and a man was killed and another injured in a nightclub incident in the entertainment district.


The people who do these things have violence INSIDE THEM. It's a HUMAN trait, neither inherent in the metal alloys of the firearm or it's design. A gun is a tool made for hunting and self-defense. Someone could attack you with a nail file and gouge out your eyeballs, but it doesn't make Satan the Mastermind of Manicures.
Before there were guns, it was common for the public in free countries to carry swords and daggers, and OHMYGOD! Occasionally there was a duel, or worse. Jack the Ripper never killed anyone with a gun, nor did Ted Bundy for that matter. Horror and cruelty do not exist in tools and weapons, but in the human heart, and NOWHERE ELSE IN NATURE.

Destroy every firearm on the planet. Humans will continue to murder each other. And many will be left unable to defend themselves.

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Harris County, Texas, December, 2006: An overnight home invasion robbery attempt in northeast Harris County ended in a hail of gunfire that left two suspects dead.
Investigators said a 17-year-old was home with his cousin when four armed men kicked in the door and started shooting.
The teen pulled out a shotgun of his own and fired back at the suspects, killing two of them.


Read some history. In every nation on Earth where the ruling power has made it illegal for the citizenry to keep arms in their homes (not just guns, go farther back to when it was just swords), the government has immediately turned to tyrannical despotism and innocents have been murdered and imprisoned by hundreds or thousands. So maybe it's not so 'psychotic' to have a healthy mistrust of people who crave power.

Law-abiding citizens do not commit vicious unprovoked atrocities with their firearms (thus the term law-abiding). Just try and find a recorded incident of a gun crime committed by someone with a Concealed Carry permit. People who hold up banks and liquor stores and murder rival gang members are clearly not afraid to break the law (and have invariably done so repeatedly before they commit a gun related offense). Are you so stupid that you believe making guns illegal will prevent THEM from getting one? People who shoot up churches and schools are mentally deranged. Even in the US, the mentally ill are not LEGALLY allowed to purchase or own firearms. For that matter it's automatically a crime in the US to even WALK INTO a school with a gun, and every mall and many churches have NO FIREARMS ALLOWED posted at the front door. Yet when some nut job (who's been fed pharmaceutical antidepressants for the last two years) wants to vent his hatred or make a name for himself killing a whole lot of people, where does he automatically go? Where the largest numbers of UNARMED VICTIMS ARE of course. DUH. Statistical analysis has shown that areas where carrying a firearm is legal show marked DECREASES in violent crime*. How could this be so if guns are inherently EVIL? It's simple logic: If attacking someone is liable to get you shot, even an idiot will think twice, or go someplace where committing that crime is less risky. Like Canada.

Thank goodness somebody had the wherewithal to jump on this guy, but realistically he could have done as much damage with a match and a couple of wine bottles full of nails, glass shards and gasoline. Who knows, maybe he opted for bullets because he couldn't afford two bottle of gasoline.

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Cyanide
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27 Jul 2008, 8:12 pm

Yeah it's pretty weird when something like that happens so close to you. Back in 1998 when I was in 3rd grade, the Thurston High School happened in Springfield, OR. I live in Eugene, the town right next to it.



MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 9:15 pm

Linda Kreager, a critically wounded victim, just died at the hospital.


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MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 9:21 pm

Willard wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
I think America suffers from what I call the Charlton Heston Syndrome. If people weren't so psychotic about their right to bear arms, none of this pointless violence would ever happen.


I've come to expect this sort of smug, shallow, knee-jerk, "I-know-it-all-because-the-liberal-media-tells-me-so" spout-out from you, but it really would be nice if someone of your supposedly mature age would do a little thinking before he babbles. There are young impressionable minds here who will soak up that nonsense and actually believe it.
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THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL THREAD! MY FRIENDS ARE DEAD! GO AWAY! You are the shallow, knee-jerk one here. This is a thread about a tragedy at my church. Take your agenda to PP&R. Or, better yet, GO TO HELL!

I'm not upset about what you're saying, BUT WHERE AND HOW YOU ARE SAYING IT IS HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE!


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Ancalagon
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27 Jul 2008, 9:28 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
Linda Kreager, a critically wounded victim, just died at the hospital.
Sorry to hear that. :cry:

How are the others doing?


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MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 9:29 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
MissPickwickian wrote:
Linda Kreager, a critically wounded victim, just died at the hospital.
Sorry to hear that. :cry:

How are the others doing?


Treated and released.

RIP Greg McKendry and Linda Kreager.


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Ancalagon
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27 Jul 2008, 9:32 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
Treated and released.
That's a relief.


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n4mwd
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27 Jul 2008, 9:32 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
The church had received some anonymous, homophobic, threatening hate mail a few days before the attack.


Are you saying that the church was pro-gay and the killer was a homophobe? I used to live in Oak Ridge and there were several pro-gay churches in Knoxville.

As far as guns go, I used to carry a gun everywhere. I never once shot or robbed anybody. Its not the gun or availability, its the guy holding it that makes the difference.

That guy committed a double murder. He deserves the death penalty. How he killed is irrelevant.



MissPickwickian
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27 Jul 2008, 9:45 pm

n4mwd wrote:
Are you saying that the church was pro-gay and the killer was a homophobe? I used to live in Oak Ridge and there were several pro-gay churches in Knoxville.

From all accounts.
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As far as guns go, I used to carry a gun everywhere. I never once shot or robbed anybody. Its not the gun or availability, its the guy holding it that makes the difference.

Good for you.
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That guy committed a double murder. He deserves the death penalty. How he killed is irrelevant.

As I've said.


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slowmutant
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27 Jul 2008, 10:19 pm

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I'm not upset about what you're saying, BUT WHERE AND HOW YOU ARE SAYING IT IS HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE!


You are right. I am deeply sorry. I'm sorry for your loss, MissPickian. :(