Lonely, isolated in a sea of NT's

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Hi Everyone!

Quote from Sunshower: "Also, I think sometimes Austistics might make NT's uncomfortable as maybe their body language can seem random and unpredictable to someone used to reading into that stuff (am I close to hitting the mark, or completely off here?)"

My answer: Yes, I think you are definitely hitting the mark! I can't speak for all NT's, but speaking for myself, I do feel uncomfortable and awkward when I am speaking to an autistic person. I am a person who finds conversation very easy, so when I find I can't conversate easily with someone else, I feel confused. I also begin to worry that maybe I said or did something to offend them if they are too quiet, or if they react in a way I wasn't expecting. Conversation becomes strained, and I begin to feel really tense and stessed out inside. And do you know what I just realized? THAT'S HOW AUTISTIC PEOPLE FEEL ALL OF THE TIME! !! !! ! Wow.........I never thought about that before: the fact that the way I feel when speaking to autistic people is very similar to what autistic people feel when speaking to NT's! Only I rarely have to feel that way since I don't meet many autistic people in the course of my day, but autistics feel that way every single day because they just can't ever get away from us NT's! That's very sobering to realize, even for me, a wife and mother of autistic people! You would think I would have realized this before now, huh? I feel rather silly for never realizing this before now. All of these years I have been trying to feel what autistics feel, in the hopes of relating better to my husband and my son, and one of the most common feelings autistics experience was right in my grasp of understanding all along. Thanks Sunshower! You have really opened my eyes! This is why I am so glad I have met you and others here at Wrong Planet! I am learing so much thanks to you all.

I have another question for you all, if you don't mind answering. Would you be offended if you were speaking to a NT, and the NT very gently told you that you just said something that upset them in some manner. The reason I am asking this question is because of my own son. When David is upset about something, he tends to speak in a harsh manner to whomever he is with at that moment. He has done this with several teachers at school already, and I have received some phone calls about it. I told the teachers that when David does this, they should very gently tell him that he said something in an offensive manner, whether he realizes it or not. Then they should repeat what he said, so that he knows exactly what he said and the tone of voice he used. And finally, I told the teachers they could offer a verbal example of how to say what David just said, only more politely and less harshly. I don't know if I offered the teachers the right advice on how to handle David when he gets verbally agressive with them. What do you think? Is my advice good? Is it bad? Could you offer me a better suggestion on how to handle this problem? I sure would appreciate your opinions. I don't want David to get hurt by my advice, but I need to find an answer that will help the teachers AND David at the same time.

Thanks!

Hi Snugglebee!

Wow I'm glad I've been of help to you. Makes me feel good. Yes, what you're saying about body language sums it up exactly. For me, I've progressed in my understanding to the stage where I can feel comfortable around NT guys (as they tend to be more open and less subtle about what they mean), but when I'm in a group of girls I feel the tension and the strain exactly as you describe it. Which is why the vast majority of my friends are guys, but I feel so fortunate to have developed my understanding of body language to this point. It used to be a torment for me having to communicate with people all of the time cause of the constant stress, and pressure, and being on edge, which is why I preferred to read in the library, and also why I got really tired after a day of communicating at school if I had to communicate (my mum used to order me to make friends, and tell me to ask people how their holidays where, so i used to go up to people and do that, it was like a chore and very stressful, not fun at all).

About the telling about upsetting thing (exactly as you described it actually, I couldn't put it better myself), my mum has no such qualms. She tells me every minute of every day every little thing I do or say that's either offensive or inappropriate. She says it gently and nicely the vast majority of the time, but i would NOT recommend doing it for every little thing. I think doing it for the big things is appropriate, and the more you do it the more he will improve, but BE CAREFUL. (Sorry, slipping into inappropriate lecture mode here, will start again, but I can't emphasize this enough)

Being an aspie, I always saw things in black and white, and wanted to be a good girl. Every time mum told me nicely about one of these things, i immediately registered it in my head as me being a bad girl. Of course, if someone says something like this to you, at least every half an hour, it starts to affect your mentality.

I started to hate myself. I was never good enough. I was bad, I was a failure, I did everything wrong. I let everyone down, and hurt other peoples feelings even when I didn't mean to (which was the worst thing of all, knowing that you could be hurting other peoples feelings at any time, and you never even know you did it until someone told you). It killed me. I started loathing myself. I hated myself so much I starting thinking about suicide a lot of the time. I wanted to hurt myself. I wanted to punish myself for the bad person I was, and the bad things I did to other people. I became obsessed. The only thing that stopped me was the thought that suicide was the easy way out, and that it wouldn't help anybody. More than anything, I wanted to fix the things I'd done somehow by either punishing myself or making other people feel good. It was the only way I could live with myself.

You know, I've never shared this poem with anyone, but I think I'll share it with you, as it pretty much sums up everything I just said, except maybe with a slightly less balanced outlook. And my advice? Tell him, in as kind a way possible, but then balance that out with a compliment of some sort. Keep the balance, and then he can learn to be better while his opinion of himself won't slide into negative territory.

Dear Mum,

You strive for perfection, for a world of pure white.

Other shades don’t exist in your world and you won’t rest until you’ve destroyed all the imperfection.

You’re always restless.

I see the world the way you do; and in it I’m black.

Black as the night.

You scrub and scrub away at me and remain unsatisfied.

“You’re wrong,” you tell me, “you’ve no one to blame but yourself.”

I’m all wrong.

I know it’s always my fault.

Sometimes my complete imperfection and wrongness becomes too much for you to bear and you won’t speak or look at me for hours.

So I won’t see the hatred in your eyes.

I’m all wrong.

Every day I try harder to please you but my efforts are doomed to failure. How can a worthless nothing like me ever hope to succeed?

I’m a failure for a daughter.

Sometimes in your heartbreak you tell me so.

I’m like a blunt knife in your side, twisting excruciatingly slowly.

You love me but I’m black in your world.

I’m killing you slowly.

I’m a murderer.

You’re determined to smooth out my imperfections, using the burning hot iron of your words on the creases of my self.

At the same time the iron burns holes in my heart and I retreat within myself, hiding behind a semipermeable wall of numbness.

A necessary sacrifice.

My self esteem crumples under your onslaught and my worthless self is revealed in all its ugly glory.

I’m dying inside.

You cry sometimes. Break down and ask God what have you done to deserve me? You beg for a different daughter, a daughter that’s not a lazy, selfish, dumb, greedy, shallow, unfeeling b***h.

As you crumble, I crumble. I cannot survive without the wall you have become for me to stop me from falling.

If I could rip out my heart I would. I’d scrub it and scrub it and scrub it until all the filth, all the imperfection has gone away. I’d give it to you.

I love you mummy.

Cut me, stab me, tear me apart, kill me slowly. I deserve to die.

Snugglebee, I think talking to you, opening up and posting this poem, has finally healed me in some way. I posted it up as a topic in itself on the forum, it meant so much to share it.

Sunshower, I wish you could see me right now with the tears running down my face! Your poem is heart wrenching! I don't think I've ever read anything more heart wrenching than your poem. I could almost feel how wretched you were feeling when you wrote it! I can easily see how you struggle with your relationship with your mom. I can see that, whether your mom realizes it or not, she really hurt you badly inside. But do you know what else I see? I see how strong you are to have lived through that kind of heart break and mental torture, and I see how kind and good-hearted you are despite living with unkindness for so long. And more than anything, I hope you see yourself as the color white now! I see not a trace of blackness in you! And I would be proud to have you for my daughter. You tried so hard to be obedient to your mother, even at the expense of your own comfort. You initiated conversations with other girls at school and tried hard to make friends, even though you didn't want to. You wanted so much to make your mom happy and proud, even though she was hurting you. (I pray it was unintentional hurt!) And still, you love her. Yeah Sunshower, I really would be proud if I had a daughter like you. Just want you to know that. Have you ever thought about showing her your poem? Or have you ever told her in words how she made you feel? Just curious...

Thank you, also, for the advice about David! It gives me great peace of mind to hear how you feel about it. I promise you that I will be very careful to point out only the big things, an not every little thing. I also promise to balance out the constructive criticism with honest compliments. I also promise to make sure his teachers do the same thing. I agree with you 100% on your advice, and I promise to be careful! I don't want David to ever feel black inside like you did, and I don't want him to be afraid to talk to anyone for fear of hurting their feelings, or simply because he's sick of getting corrected. I will keep you posted on his progress.

Keep healing, Sunshower! Never stop. Stay strong and kind, too! I think you're amazing!! !!

Thanks so much snugglebee, with the personal compliments I think I'm blushing What makes me feel good about posting these comments is that I can be helpful to you and your son.

I do not doubt that my mum loves me unconditionally, as I love her. Which is what made it all the more messed up and heartbreaking. I have the feeling she herself might have a disorder of some type.

I could never show her this poem. It would destroy her. It would make her hate me. I could never ever do that. I've tried to explain to her when she hurts me, but she never ever understands. She's the most thick skinned person I know. She simply can't see things from another person's point of view. So it's only cruel to tell her that she's being mean or hurtful, because she can't seem to understand what she's doing, because in her mind she is 100% certain she is in the right/is doing the right thing/is being kind and self sacrificial, not matter how clearly you try to explain things to her. And I've tried.

I know she's not aspie because she's too manipulative - she never says exactly what she means, so a lot of the time i find it very hard to figure out what she's really saying (I'm not trying to be mean, she's just that kind of person, and she's got good traits to balance it off such as going out of her way to help other people), and she's too on the ball and ood at multitasking and managing and eye contact and that sort of thing. But yeah, her thick skinned-ness and amazing capacity to never ever doubt she is in the right no matter what goes way beyond the bounds of normal..

I'm really glad you're on board with David, as i think it's a dangerous trap for an aspie to fall into, as we tend to take peoples compliments/put downs very literally and truthfully, and so take everything to heart. Also I hope what I've said won't stop you from correcting him when it is necessary, as I think it is important for him to learn good social skills, especially at this stage of his development. But I'm not too worried, as what you said in your post sounds 100% spot on in that department.

You said David was moving into high school right? Where do you guys live? I'm personally in QLD Australia. The age of 13 and moving into High School was an interesting time for me, because I was diagnosed in my last year of primary school at the age of 12.

Hi Sunshower!

I'm going to send you a private message to continue our chat. If you don't receive it, let me know by replying here on this thread.