elysian1969
Snowy Owl
Joined: 9 Aug 2012
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 138
Location: Somewhere east of Eden
24 Feb 2015, 11:48 am
androbot01 wrote:
I would seriously question this guy's treatment. The ever fruitless quest to be NT almost killed me. Now I don't try to pass st all and it has helped my anxiety a lot.
And you don't get over autism, you just learn to cope.
And you don't get over autism, you just learn to cope.
Me too. I gave up the effort to "be normal" about 5 years ago, and told myself that I am going to wear what I want, be who I am, do what I do, and whoever doesn't like it- TOUGH TITTY. I really don't care who likes me or not, because when I am who I am I know who my real friends are.
My stress level has gone way down since then.
Lnb1771
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 74
Location: United States
25 Feb 2015, 10:13 am
elysian1969 wrote:
I could literally go on for days on this topic. I can't say that laying blame would do me any good. My childhood was terrifying probably more because of my wiring and my reactions to the cruelty and ignorance of others than anything else. It didn't help that I was born into a poor family and was the less-than-wanted third daughter of three girls. Not only was I sickly and female, and "defective," I always knew I didn't fit in and didn't belong. Mom is bi-polar and at that time, she was untreated, unpredictable and unreliable, so most of the time I was at the mercy of my older sisters (the oldest was quite the sadist, even to the "normal" kids in the neighborhood) unless I ran across the field and hid out with my grandmother. She and my grandfather (who was very likely on the spectrum as well) literally saved my life many times. Grandma kept me from getting beaten up getting on and off the bus, and would give me a safe place to just be by myself when I needed to be.
I knew anxiety and panic attacks long before I knew what they were or what caused them. I don't know how many nights I spent awake just lying still staring at the ceiling or the shadows on the wall, wracked in a cold sweat of terror. My sisters and other kids knew that it was "fun" to do things to trigger my overblown responses, so by the time I was old enough to go to school I was PTSD. It probably didn't help with the peer abuse issues that I was hyperlexic. I could read and comprehend far above grade level, and I was always reading something, usually subject matter that was over my classmates' heads. Since my family was poor, I always had bad clothes (my sisters' threadbare and ill-fitting hand-me-downs) and thick glasses. I have gross motor deficits, and I was very small for my chronological age, which also made me an ideal target for the sadistic set. Who better to pick on than the sickly little geek kid who can't run? By the beginning of first grade I was 24-7 anxiety on a stick, and didn't need a reason to freak out.
My parents and teachers and adults around me had absolutely no idea what was wrong with me when I spazzed out, other than to castigate me for "over-reacting." I tried to stay to myself as much as I could and tried to avoid anything that would act as a trigger, but that didn't work very well. As I got older and had to work with others and deal with the general public, keeping my anxiety at bay became more and more difficult. Even into my adult life I have had full blown panic attacks and have had to suddenly step out of a room or pull the car over long enough to somewhat calm down. There were many times I thought I was losing my mind.
I didn't learn that there was connection between HFA and PTSD until I was in counseling the last time. My counselor explained to me what PTSD was and gave me a number of strategies to help live with it. Naming my fears and feelings, which sounds trite and immaterial, actually helps a lot, especially for a hyperlexic who is fascinated by words and written language. It's easier to face what you can name.
Part of dealing with PTSD and anxiety -for me- involves medication. I take a combination of Prozac and Catapres that helps to mitigate the biochemical process that contributes to PTSD and anxiety. Meds may not be a good option for everyone, and it probably shouldn't be a first option (and it wasn't for me) but the meds have been a Godsend for me. I am able to (most of the time) engage my rational mind and not go down the "what if" and the "I'm just plain terrified because I am" trails.
I do believe there can be a biochemical connection with PTSD and that it's reinforced with every trigger. I also think that being HFA sets you up for PTSD, because you are already nervous and on edge because you know you're not one of the "normals." I grew up believing I could never be good enough and that I was defective and not really a person deserving of respect and dignity. I had to PROVE everything- that I could do better, know more, be better, to be considered worthy of anything. Since no one understood that when I was growing up, everyone thought I was just over-reacting to "normal" kids' teasing and so forth. So you have to go through the long process of re-learning what is a threat and what is not a threat. I'm still on the journey. I'm still trying to figure this stuff out.
I knew anxiety and panic attacks long before I knew what they were or what caused them. I don't know how many nights I spent awake just lying still staring at the ceiling or the shadows on the wall, wracked in a cold sweat of terror. My sisters and other kids knew that it was "fun" to do things to trigger my overblown responses, so by the time I was old enough to go to school I was PTSD. It probably didn't help with the peer abuse issues that I was hyperlexic. I could read and comprehend far above grade level, and I was always reading something, usually subject matter that was over my classmates' heads. Since my family was poor, I always had bad clothes (my sisters' threadbare and ill-fitting hand-me-downs) and thick glasses. I have gross motor deficits, and I was very small for my chronological age, which also made me an ideal target for the sadistic set. Who better to pick on than the sickly little geek kid who can't run? By the beginning of first grade I was 24-7 anxiety on a stick, and didn't need a reason to freak out.
My parents and teachers and adults around me had absolutely no idea what was wrong with me when I spazzed out, other than to castigate me for "over-reacting." I tried to stay to myself as much as I could and tried to avoid anything that would act as a trigger, but that didn't work very well. As I got older and had to work with others and deal with the general public, keeping my anxiety at bay became more and more difficult. Even into my adult life I have had full blown panic attacks and have had to suddenly step out of a room or pull the car over long enough to somewhat calm down. There were many times I thought I was losing my mind.
I didn't learn that there was connection between HFA and PTSD until I was in counseling the last time. My counselor explained to me what PTSD was and gave me a number of strategies to help live with it. Naming my fears and feelings, which sounds trite and immaterial, actually helps a lot, especially for a hyperlexic who is fascinated by words and written language. It's easier to face what you can name.
Part of dealing with PTSD and anxiety -for me- involves medication. I take a combination of Prozac and Catapres that helps to mitigate the biochemical process that contributes to PTSD and anxiety. Meds may not be a good option for everyone, and it probably shouldn't be a first option (and it wasn't for me) but the meds have been a Godsend for me. I am able to (most of the time) engage my rational mind and not go down the "what if" and the "I'm just plain terrified because I am" trails.
I do believe there can be a biochemical connection with PTSD and that it's reinforced with every trigger. I also think that being HFA sets you up for PTSD, because you are already nervous and on edge because you know you're not one of the "normals." I grew up believing I could never be good enough and that I was defective and not really a person deserving of respect and dignity. I had to PROVE everything- that I could do better, know more, be better, to be considered worthy of anything. Since no one understood that when I was growing up, everyone thought I was just over-reacting to "normal" kids' teasing and so forth. So you have to go through the long process of re-learning what is a threat and what is not a threat. I'm still on the journey. I'm still trying to figure this stuff out.
I too was bullied by my older sister. We all knew of my history but that didn't stop my sister of harassing me to get a reaction (and I would react). My mom would tell me to not react but I wasn't able to do that. I didn't get bullied in school to which I feel lucky. A councilor at one of my colleges diagnosed me with PTSD due to the fact that I was getting anxiety attacks and I had been sexually abused in my marriage. I fit into so many minority categories that it's hard to know what is what. I have ASD, anxiety, bipolar I, been sexually abused, and am a lesbian. Your post made me think of my sister and the effect she had on me as a child. She has since apologized to me. However, I'm sure that a couple of my phobias probably wouldn't persist if she hadn't forced me to face them as a child.
elysian1969
Snowy Owl
Joined: 9 Aug 2012
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 138
Location: Somewhere east of Eden
10 Mar 2015, 11:25 am
Lnb1771 wrote:
I too was bullied by my older sister. We all knew of my history but that didn't stop my sister of harassing me to get a reaction (and I would react). My mom would tell me to not react but I wasn't able to do that. I didn't get bullied in school to which I feel lucky. A councilor at one of my colleges diagnosed me with PTSD due to the fact that I was getting anxiety attacks and I had been sexually abused in my marriage. I fit into so many minority categories that it's hard to know what is what. I have ASD, anxiety, bipolar I, been sexually abused, and am a lesbian. Your post made me think of my sister and the effect she had on me as a child. She has since apologized to me. However, I'm sure that a couple of my phobias probably wouldn't persist if she hadn't forced me to face them as a child.
One thing my childhood did to me was to make me really distrust women. I have to make a concerted effort to socialize with women at church- and I am glad I do- because I have learned much from them and even made some friends. But that was a long time coming, and I still stay on guard with people for a very long time. I can't tolerate petty, gossipy old bitties.
I don't trust men much more- the ex-husband almost made me give up on humanity altogether- but I find I get along better with men as I tend to be more focused on the rational/thinking side of my head than the unpredictable, unreliable and just plain vexing emotional side. I also tend to be a bit of a techie type which makes conversation with men much easier for me.
I see a disturbing trend with parents, whether their kids are on the spectrum or even NT kids, where parents believe they have to protect their children from every little slight or trauma. I don't believe in that. Kids do have to struggle, fail and experience defeat if they are ever going to overcome and be successful human beings. Having an ASD doesn't give you a pass from that experience either. Now in my instance, it was probably much more brutal than it had to be, simply because there were no checks put in place on either my oldest sister or the kids at school- they beat me, stole from me, and pretty much abused me in every way possible, with impunity. My mother often times neither knew nor cared what planet she was on because most of the time back then she was either manic or near-catatonic. But the answer to overall apathy or neglect is not mollycoddling or letting a child opt out of every experience that is challenging. There has to be a balance between being completely laissez-faire, and micromanaging every minute of a child's day.
The nicest thing my son (who is both NT and extraverted, like most of my family- it's really a trip to be a parent on the spectrum with an NT kid) ever said to me was, "Thanks, Mom, for being a hard ass." He was 21 when he said it, and he meant it. I didn't leave him out to be devoured by the wolves like I was- but I did let him experience the consequences of his failures. I did set certain absolute rules and standards, and I did require basic manners and etiquette from him. Sanctions were enforced when rules were broken. I don't think I would have done those things differently had he been on the spectrum, either. If anything, I probably would have had to be a little harder. I never had to worry about him being bullied, for instance, because he is the kind of person that doesn't take crap. He doesn't have the fear and anxiety issues that I do.
I'm thankful in many ways that I had such a harsh upbringing, but I also remember all the struggles toward healing that have had to take place to get where I am now. I'm damaged goods in a lot of ways, but I'm functioning pretty well at this point. There is good life to be had- if you're willing to find it.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
10 Mar 2015, 2:16 pm
11 Mar 2015, 2:06 am
11 Mar 2015, 4:02 am
elysian1969
Snowy Owl
Joined: 9 Aug 2012
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 138
Location: Somewhere east of Eden
12 Mar 2015, 8:39 am
dryope wrote:
BuyerBeware wrote:
My therapist still doesn't realize how much mental energy goes into being "just eccentric." Nobody does, except another "passing" autistic. [...]
OTOH, I do seem to have been permanently turned into a semi-submissive (not in the sexual sense-- in the "everything else" sense). More than half. Trying to be assertive causes feelings of anxiety and guilt, out of fear that I'm "being autistic again" and dragging everyone else along against their will.
OTOH, I do seem to have been permanently turned into a semi-submissive (not in the sexual sense-- in the "everything else" sense). More than half. Trying to be assertive causes feelings of anxiety and guilt, out of fear that I'm "being autistic again" and dragging everyone else along against their will.
I really resonate with these thoughts. No one thinks it's a big deal that I've learned I'm autistic because I'm 37 and have taught myself how to cope after a lot of struggle. But I've been doing that struggle alone in the dark all my life. They have no idea how much I'm treading water under the surface now.
Feeling empowered to say what I really think? It just doesn't seem possible. I'm just trying to be acceptable and not hurt other people. I miss that mark widely all the time, so I try too hard and end up seeming submissive, because I'd rather be on that side of the line than the other one. If I said what I wanted to say all the time...well, I'd look a lot more autistic, I guess, but I'd also be considered a jerk and probably be ostracized. It's hard enough being accepted as it is.
Anyway, if you haven't seen this article (it was posted on this forum a few months ago), it's a good one:
The Gas-Lighting of Women and Girls on the Autistic Spectrum
https://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/the-gas-lighting-of-women-and-girls-on-the-autism-spectrum/
(It may also apply to some men -- I wouldn't know.)
Thanks for posting the link to that article. I understand very well what it is to tread lightly because it's hard to tell what will offend others and what won't. For many years I thought the only way to validate my existence was to be better, stronger, faster, willing to do more, etc. and so on. Overachievement and overwork have been lifelong pitfalls for me and have led to a number of health issues- mental, spiritual, physical- you name it. I'm trying to walk a line between being truly authentic and balanced (which means really cutting down on the number of commitments and the amount of social interactions I take on) and completely shutting down. Today I'm at the point where I can really identify with John Galt in Atlas Shrugged- I'm tired of holding up the world for everyone else. It's just going to have to run without me, and I'll sit and watch the wheels go 'round. The only problem with me switching off though, is that it's next to impossible for me to turn back on.
It takes such an incredible amount of energy for me to maintain the "I'm so normal" façade, and the older I get, the less energy I have available to do that. I'm also at the point where I really don't care who knows I'm not normal. When just getting through a "normal" day is completely exhausting I know I'm not doing something right, but I've not quite figured out what that is. I'd love to come to a place where it's either deal with me the way I am, or leave me alone, but I'm certainly not there and probably never will be. I struggle with that too. How much do I have to concede and give away to be a valid human being?
12 Mar 2015, 10:48 pm
12 Mar 2015, 10:56 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
Bluntness, with an air of sensitivity, is essential when dealing with "first-responder" type situations.
The sensitivity comes WAY later, in terms of New York minutes. In my experience(s) it might've been dangerous to mix up sensitivity & encouragement. Realizing that my own PTSD didn't begin with learning this kind of split-decision reasoning is an ongoing thing.
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23 Mar 2015, 1:15 pm
Unico
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 194
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA
27 Mar 2015, 7:48 pm
03 Apr 2015, 7:46 am
Unico wrote:
I have severe PTSD, but while I was abused partly due to being autistic, most of the PTSD is due to extremely abnormal circumstances (captivity, attempted murder, etc. by my father).
Whoah! For what it's worth, you have my sympathy/awe at your ability to survive that.
elysian1969
Snowy Owl
Joined: 9 Aug 2012
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 138
Location: Somewhere east of Eden
03 Apr 2015, 9:27 am
dryope wrote:
Unico wrote:
I have severe PTSD, but while I was abused partly due to being autistic, most of the PTSD is due to extremely abnormal circumstances (captivity, attempted murder, etc. by my father).
Whoah! For what it's worth, you have my sympathy/awe at your ability to survive that.
I have to agree with that, and my heart goes out to you. I know how difficult and positively terrifying my childhood was just getting abuse from my sisters and kids at school. I can't really say that my parents actively contributed to the stress/abuse that I lived with. Mom is bi-polar, and at that time, untreated, so she was at the zoo (so to speak) a good deal of the time. Her blindness and apathy toward my plight was only due to the fact that she was drowning in her own demons- and a drowning person makes a pretty ineffective lifeguard. Dad did what he could and I spent a lot of time with him when he wasn't working. When I was with Dad or with my grandmother, my sisters and their friends couldn't pound on me, so I got refuge when I could get it. It doesn't sound like you had any kind of a safe place to go. I hope that you have found one now. Everyone needs to have a safe place.
I really hope that you're at a place where you're getting help. There is life beyond PTSD - not to say that you are ever "cured" of it, but there are coping strategies that can help you turn down the volume and decrease your anxiety. Sometimes those strategies will need to come from mental health professionals, including medication for some people (me included!). I wish I hadn't waited until my mid-thirties to get help- but I am thankful that I finally did.
I hope that you have at least one person who you can trust and confide in. Not everyone understands when a person with PTSD freaks out over certain triggers or for seemingly no reason at all. Dealing with delayed reactions and flashbacks is really terrifying business sometimes. I won't tell you the things that cause delayed reactions and flashbacks will go away, but over time those triggers get less intense.
Please feel free to message me if you would like to talk further.
13 Apr 2015, 2:00 pm
13 Apr 2015, 9:20 pm
14 Apr 2015, 12:18 pm
