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MushroomPrincess
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05 Sep 2025, 11:46 am

These are just ways for doctors to tip-toe around the word "autism" to help soften the blow for parents who might otherwise resist the dx, it's as simple as that. My autism isn't "more mild" than anyone else's and it's ableist to even suggest that. But, again, I know that's an unpopular opinion (for obvious reasons)



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05 Sep 2025, 12:33 pm

Well, as an individual on the spectrum, you're as autistic as you feel. I don't feel that autistic. The guy down the road who is non-verbal and very obviously different is probably more autistic than me. I have a job, a relationship, and good communication skills.

But I'm not speaking for anyone else here. It's just how I see it.


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05 Sep 2025, 1:42 pm

It seems like I may have upsetted people here. I'm sorry for causing trouble.



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05 Sep 2025, 2:37 pm

Vannuro wrote:
It seems like I may have upsetted people here. I'm sorry for causing trouble.


I don't think you have.


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05 Sep 2025, 4:49 pm

Vannuro wrote:
It seems like I may have upsetted people here. I'm sorry for causing trouble.

You're okay



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05 Sep 2025, 5:15 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
These are just ways for doctors to tip-toe around the word "autism" to help soften the blow for parents who might otherwise resist the dx, it's as simple as that.


This is exactly why Lorna Wing advocated for the Asperger's Diagnosis.

Did Lorna Wing think Asperger’s syndrome was distinct from autism?
Quote:
Lorna Wing (1928-2014) was a British psychiatrist who is heavily associated with introducing the diagnosis of Asperger’s syndrome to the English speaking language. She is often taken as thinking that Asperger’s syndrome was a distinct diagnosis from autism, as opposed to being two different names for the same thing.

In 1981 Wing wrote a paper named “Asperger’s syndrome: a clinical account” (Wing 1981).

As much as Wing’s 1981 paper on Asperger’s syndrome vastly increased the interest in Asperger’s syndrome, did she think Asperger’s syndrome was distinct from autism? Wing makes multiple statements that show she thought Asperger’s syndrome was not distinct from autism.

In later publications Wing gives further detail on views on Asperger’s syndrome and why she wrote her 1981 paper on it. “My original purpose, as someone just beginning to consider the nature of this condition, was to emphasize the strong possibility that the syndrome was part of the autistic spectrum and that there were no clear boundaries separating it from other autistic disorders. However, since then, various workers have tended to the belief that Asperger syndrome and autism are different conditions—quite the opposite of my intention” (2000, p.418 emphasis added)

What, however, was Wing’s motive in writing about Asperger’s syndrome and using Asperger’s syndrome in a diagnostic context? Her intension was desiring to employ a new diagnosis which did not have some of the associations of autism. In her 1981 paper she writes that “is there any justification for identifying Asperger’s syndrome as a separate entity? Until the aetiologies of such conditions are known, the term is helpful when explaining the problems of children and adults who have autistic features, but who talk grammatically and who are not socially aloof. Such people are perplexing to parents, teachers and work supervisors, who often cannot believe in a diagnosis of autism, which they equate with muteness and total social withdrawal. The use of a diagnostic term and reference to Asperger’s clinical descriptions help to convince the people concerned that there is a real problem involving subtle, but important, intellectual impairments, and needing careful management and education” (1981, p.124, emphasis added). She is more explicit on this point in later publications. “in our clinical work, my colleagues and I see many children and adolescents such as the ones Asperger described. Their parents will not consider a diagnosis of autism, but what they have heard about Asperger syndrome strikes a chord with them. We also see a small but steady flow of adults who come to seek advice for themselves because something they have read or heard makes them think they have Asperger syndrome. When the diagnosis is confirmed and the implications, positive as well as negative, are discussed, in almost all cases the individual concerned is immensely relieved to have an explanation of why he (or occasionally she) has felt different from others all his life. They are mostly willing to accept the relationship to autism when this is put into context… Such individuals would never have asked for a referral if the only label available had been autism as it is usually described (2000 p.419-420). She also writes in relation to her 1981 paper that “I agreed that the syndromes within the autistic continuum could not be clearly differentiated, but put forward two main reasons for the limited usefulness of the label Asperger’s syndrome in current clinical practice. The first, also emphasised by Szatmari et al. (1986), is that the diagnosis of autism is, in the minds of many lay people, synonymous with total absence of speech, social isolation, no eye contact, hyperactivity, agility and absorption in bodily stereotypies. There is a lack of understanding of the wide range of severity and the widely differing manifestation of the basic impairments. For this reason, parents without special experience tend to overlook or reject the idea of autism for their socially gauche, naive, talkative, clumsy child, or adult, who is intensely interested in the times of tides around the coast of Great Britain, the need for the abolition of British Summer Time, or the names and relationships of all characters who have ever appeared in a television soap opera, such as ‘Coronation Street’. The suggestion that their child may have an interesting condition called Asperger’s syndrome is much more acceptable. That this is closely related to autism and is in the autistic continuum can be explained gradually over the course of time, and the parents can then be introduced to their proper reference group of other families with similar problems through the National Autistic Society. The second reason is that professional workers without special experience of autism, including psychiatrists working with adults, also tend to have a narrow view of the clinical picture. Many of them think of autism as a condition of childhood and do not automatically include it as a possible diagnosis when seeing adults. The various recent papers on Asperger’s syndrome have attracted attention from adult as well as child psychiatrists because of its novelty value in English-language publications, whereas papers on autism would probably have been read only by people working with children. As a result of using the Asperger label there has been an increase in awareness that an autistic person of normal intelligence can be undiagnosed in childhood but be referred to a psychiatrist in adult life. Attention has also been drawn to the fact that such people can develop psychiatric illnesses and that the presence of the developmental disorder as well as the adult illness complicates treatment and management” (1981, p.171). She promoted the term Asperger’s syndrome simply because other terms had undesirable connotations.


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05 Sep 2025, 6:00 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
These are just ways for doctors to tip-toe around the word "autism" to help soften the blow for parents who might otherwise resist the dx, it's as simple as that.


This is exactly why Lorna Wing advocated for the Asperger's Diagnosis.

Did Lorna Wing think Asperger’s syndrome was distinct from autism?
Quote:
Lorna Wing (1928-2014) was a British psychiatrist who is heavily associated with introducing the diagnosis of Asperger’s syndrome to the English speaking language. She is often taken as thinking that Asperger’s syndrome was a distinct diagnosis from autism, as opposed to being two different names for the same thing.

In 1981 Wing wrote a paper named “Asperger’s syndrome: a clinical account” (Wing 1981).

As much as Wing’s 1981 paper on Asperger’s syndrome vastly increased the interest in Asperger’s syndrome, did she think Asperger’s syndrome was distinct from autism? Wing makes multiple statements that show she thought Asperger’s syndrome was not distinct from autism.

In later publications Wing gives further detail on views on Asperger’s syndrome and why she wrote her 1981 paper on it. “My original purpose, as someone just beginning to consider the nature of this condition, was to emphasize the strong possibility that the syndrome was part of the autistic spectrum and that there were no clear boundaries separating it from other autistic disorders. However, since then, various workers have tended to the belief that Asperger syndrome and autism are different conditions—quite the opposite of my intention” (2000, p.418 emphasis added)

What, however, was Wing’s motive in writing about Asperger’s syndrome and using Asperger’s syndrome in a diagnostic context? Her intension was desiring to employ a new diagnosis which did not have some of the associations of autism. In her 1981 paper she writes that “is there any justification for identifying Asperger’s syndrome as a separate entity? Until the aetiologies of such conditions are known, the term is helpful when explaining the problems of children and adults who have autistic features, but who talk grammatically and who are not socially aloof. Such people are perplexing to parents, teachers and work supervisors, who often cannot believe in a diagnosis of autism, which they equate with muteness and total social withdrawal. The use of a diagnostic term and reference to Asperger’s clinical descriptions help to convince the people concerned that there is a real problem involving subtle, but important, intellectual impairments, and needing careful management and education” (1981, p.124, emphasis added). She is more explicit on this point in later publications. “in our clinical work, my colleagues and I see many children and adolescents such as the ones Asperger described. Their parents will not consider a diagnosis of autism, but what they have heard about Asperger syndrome strikes a chord with them. We also see a small but steady flow of adults who come to seek advice for themselves because something they have read or heard makes them think they have Asperger syndrome. When the diagnosis is confirmed and the implications, positive as well as negative, are discussed, in almost all cases the individual concerned is immensely relieved to have an explanation of why he (or occasionally she) has felt different from others all his life. They are mostly willing to accept the relationship to autism when this is put into context… Such individuals would never have asked for a referral if the only label available had been autism as it is usually described (2000 p.419-420). She also writes in relation to her 1981 paper that “I agreed that the syndromes within the autistic continuum could not be clearly differentiated, but put forward two main reasons for the limited usefulness of the label Asperger’s syndrome in current clinical practice. The first, also emphasised by Szatmari et al. (1986), is that the diagnosis of autism is, in the minds of many lay people, synonymous with total absence of speech, social isolation, no eye contact, hyperactivity, agility and absorption in bodily stereotypies. There is a lack of understanding of the wide range of severity and the widely differing manifestation of the basic impairments. For this reason, parents without special experience tend to overlook or reject the idea of autism for their socially gauche, naive, talkative, clumsy child, or adult, who is intensely interested in the times of tides around the coast of Great Britain, the need for the abolition of British Summer Time, or the names and relationships of all characters who have ever appeared in a television soap opera, such as ‘Coronation Street’. The suggestion that their child may have an interesting condition called Asperger’s syndrome is much more acceptable. That this is closely related to autism and is in the autistic continuum can be explained gradually over the course of time, and the parents can then be introduced to their proper reference group of other families with similar problems through the National Autistic Society. The second reason is that professional workers without special experience of autism, including psychiatrists working with adults, also tend to have a narrow view of the clinical picture. Many of them think of autism as a condition of childhood and do not automatically include it as a possible diagnosis when seeing adults. The various recent papers on Asperger’s syndrome have attracted attention from adult as well as child psychiatrists because of its novelty value in English-language publications, whereas papers on autism would probably have been read only by people working with children. As a result of using the Asperger label there has been an increase in awareness that an autistic person of normal intelligence can be undiagnosed in childhood but be referred to a psychiatrist in adult life. Attention has also been drawn to the fact that such people can develop psychiatric illnesses and that the presence of the developmental disorder as well as the adult illness complicates treatment and management” (1981, p.171). She promoted the term Asperger’s syndrome simply because other terms had undesirable connotations.


I miss Aspergers being an accepted clinical term. If you say you have Autism the following question is inevitably going to be "what kind?", but if you say Aspergers, most people physicians and lay persons alike, have a general idea of what to expect.



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05 Sep 2025, 6:01 pm

Asperger's is literally the meme diagnosis for people who have autism but don't like the word autism. It's autism. We have autism.



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05 Sep 2025, 6:07 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Asperger's is literally the meme diagnosis for people who have autism but don't like the word autism. It's autism. We have autism.

Well, the term Aspergers certainly carries less of a social stigma, which can be helpful if you are coming out to friends or family.

However, If I am trying to advocate for adjustments at work or dealing with social services I use the term Autism because it carries more weight.



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05 Sep 2025, 8:24 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
False. I am not a little autistic, I am a lot autistic.

Jokes aside, in what I'm sure is going to be an unpopular opinion here, no one is "a little autistic", you either are or you aren't. There is no autism "spectrum", and the only difference between "high" and "low" functioning autism is the level of privilege the patient has (access to early intervention, tutors, therapists, etc.). Autism is very frequently comorbid with other disorders of the mind, and flattening them all into one diagnosis is inevitably going to cause more problems than it could possibly solve.


I'm very autistic too!

I'd say everyone can write their thoughts, I'm fine with you expressing them!
So it's not that someone is unpopular for disagreeing... it's just that you'll find it everywhere, in any place of study or research, publication, absolutely anywhere that an autism spectrum exists.
Even using logic, it would be like saying there's only one planet in the solar system or in the galaxy. Could there be a little more?

There must be more and more... mmm!

Dark matter, black holes, white holes, dwarf stars, red giants...
Sorry, I meant to say that it's not possible for there to be just those two levels, but there's something else in between. Imagine a circle and a center.
The center is low-functioning. The outer circle, starting from the center, has various levels of autism. Up to the maximum possible = outer circle.
True: there are comorbidities. In your opinion, does this exclude the spectrum?



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05 Sep 2025, 9:41 pm

I'm a full blown autistic.
I just can pass for Asperger's if it weren't for the lack of speech delay.

And no, I'm not a pretend-to-function-enough-to-pass type for that to happen; because I was too angry, too irritated and too disinterested to bother with the so called hierarchy of superiority to "strive". :roll:
Tho my ego do care about that, I don't.

No imposter syndrome here either.
Because even before I knew I'm autistic, I figured I'm not a typical person.

I'm never a "half-NT" for being able to pass without an effort and function.

Nope, I'm a full blown autistic without the dysfunctional crap except the mess up that is hormones since puberty and my childhood in trusting the adults and the system that ended up mishandling me. :roll:


Huckleberry Finn wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
False. I am not a little autistic, I am a lot autistic.

Jokes aside, in what I'm sure is going to be an unpopular opinion here, no one is "a little autistic", you either are or you aren't. There is no autism "spectrum", and the only difference between "high" and "low" functioning autism is the level of privilege the patient has (access to early intervention, tutors, therapists, etc.). Autism is very frequently comorbid with other disorders of the mind, and flattening them all into one diagnosis is inevitably going to cause more problems than it could possibly solve.


I'm very autistic too!

I'd say everyone can write their thoughts, I'm fine with you expressing them!
So it's not that someone is unpopular for disagreeing... it's just that you'll find it everywhere, in any place of study or research, publication, absolutely anywhere that an autism spectrum exists.
Even using logic, it would be like saying there's only one planet in the solar system or in the galaxy. Could there be a little more?

There must be more and more... mmm!

Dark matter, black holes, white holes, dwarf stars, red giants...
Sorry, I meant to say that it's not possible for there to be just those two levels, but there's something else in between. Imagine a circle and a center.
The center is low-functioning. The outer circle, starting from the center, has various levels of autism. Up to the maximum possible = outer circle.
True: there are comorbidities. In your opinion, does this exclude the spectrum?

The systems itself can include or even blur the comorbidities into the autistic spectrum.

But the reality is that not everyone can seperate their autism from their comorbidities.
This includes effects of trauma and the mental illness that caused by it, many would blame it's the autism.

It's relatively subjective.
Not everyone has the discernment or introspection to even understand where the autism ends and where the others begin.

What many cared instead is comparisons towards to NT ideal -- and the contrast is the dysfunctional types of autism, because that's how many they grew up with.


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05 Sep 2025, 10:28 pm

It's never happened to me.
But your answer makes sense.
Among the possibilities, there are some rather do-good ones, let's say.
Trying to reassure parents isn't a bad approach initially.
Imagine people with a child who is diagnosed with a condition they either know nothing about, or who need to avoid panicking.

Sorry, ASPartOfMe, but I just read your post, which I think is perfect.



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05 Sep 2025, 10:29 pm

That's fine by me: when I say it (less and less...), I say I'm autistic.

Even though I have many Asperger's diagnoses and many HFA level 2 diagnoses.

Because the DSM-5 requires a different term.

We're a subcategory.

My problems are still very severe.

The fact that other things work is because I've earned it in what I could.

It's impossible in anything else.


I read about people who "justify" themselves for being the way they are: honest and sincere.

Some who have a diagnosis: honestly, it's not a social stigma.

I care about society, but only to the extent that people respect *our* conditions.

You don't have to justify anything.

§

I have sensory issues, I don't have theory of mind, I can't do anything without an anxiolytic, I can't even leave the house, I'm alexithymic, I don't look people in the eye, either too little or too much (but I corrected that), I bump into things everywhere, I'm terrible at moving, the last one in the series was that I almost lost an eye from a bike fall, I have an eye socket problem, and many other problems with my body, the point is that something else will happen to me precisely because of this lack of motor coordination... I have comorbidities with major depression, avoidant personality disorder, ADHD...

What matters in our condition?
Aside from the fact that I think everyone has comorbidities, perhaps different from mine.

The difference between autism and the definition of Asperger's is the particularity we have.

Besides, it's not a social status to be one.

§

We have younger siblings who are more messed up than us, to a very serious degree.
Even high-functioning.

A friend of mine's son has immense specialties: music (perfect pitch) and painting (high level).

For the rest, without his mother, he would have nothing.
He doesn't function socially.

He speaks very few words, was born very prematurely, and has a perfect IQ of 102.

Then there are those with very low IQs.

Some who are very special have Savantisms.

Others don't.

Some of my cousins ​​are low-functioning, and the form is truly serious.

We can discuss this by writing here.

They spend their days with enormous problems.

§

Anyone who doesn't feel their diagnosis is consistent: they can ask for a review.

Even in this case: it seems there are hypersocial people who don't have the same functioning patterns as many of us.

I read posts from confused people.

I sincerely feel sorry for them.

But since I don't fully understand what they are, the only way is to seek help from qualified doctors.

Sorry for the long post.



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06 Sep 2025, 5:07 am

In the dozen years I have been here there have always Aspie supremacists who look down on people with more pronounced traits and are ashamed to be associated with them. It is also a harmful stereotype to say that is true of all people that still identify with the old Aspergers diagnosis. My experience on this board is that most people who did or still call themselves Aspies are not ableists to their fellow autistics. When Lorna Wing proposed the Aspergers diagnosis for the purpose creating an Autism diagnosis without calling it Autism she had parents in mind. The Autism rights movement was in its infancy. The notion of Autistics going online, seeing the Aspergers diagnosis and concluding it applied to them was not a thought. The World Wide Web was just becoming well known in 1994 the year the Aspergers diagnosis became official.

Asperger’s was named after Hans Asperger a clinician who worked under the Nazis. For a period of time it was believed he was working surreptitiously to help Autistics. In 2018 two historians published works that concluded that while Hans Asperger was not a die hard Nazi he went along to get along to the point of being complicit in the Nazi eugenics program. These revelations validated those who always felt the Aspergers diagnosis was ableist. Elon Musk saying he had Aspergers further validated this idea. Outside of WP it is not uncommon for Autistics to be hostile to their fellow Autistics who still identify with the old diagnosis. This is ironic because the person who coined the term autism was an influential eugenicist.

Personal Notes:
I was diagnosed the year the current manual that subsumed the Aspergers diagnosis into the Autism Spectrum disorder was published. As we did not know where this was headed I was given both diagnosis. I identified strongly with the Aspie label. I also identified as Autistic as I thought of Aspergers as a variant or sub category of Autism. I looked at it in similar manner as identifying both as a New Yorker and American.

When the revelations about Hans Asperger came out I dropped the Aspie identity. Since the term Autism also has a problematic background I had to decide should I drop the Autistic identity. In my mind there is a difference between identifying with a term a bad guy coined and identifying with a condition named after a bad guy. Naming a condition after people is honoring them. This does not mean I have cancelled Aspergers. The Aspergers diagnosis was a profoundly positive turning point in my life. I have no desire to erase that part of my history nor could I if I wanted to. The difference now is Aspergers is a part of my past, not my present.

The above is my personal choice. I do not judge others who choose differently. My distaste for language policing is directly related to my experiences in comment sections of Autism blogs and youtube videos during the 2010s. Seemingly every time somebody would demand we stop using the word autistic because it is offensive. I resented people who probably had six decades less experience at being Autistic then me telling me what I should find offensive. In addition autistics should be the last people bullying other autistics.


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06 Sep 2025, 5:37 am

Let me clarify:
1) For me, there are people on the autism spectrum: I am one of them.
2) I am no better than anyone: I can only be better than the person I was years ago.
3) Asperger's is not a disgrace for me, even though I know the story like you do, and you are very good at it, and I congratulate you.
4) I have Asperger's, I fit into that nosography.

Not others.

Diagnostic labels help us disambiguate.

They help us understand.

5) I greatly admire autistic people like me.

I greatly admire low-functioning people and often consider them better than me in many ways.

6) I spent 36 years without a diagnosis: in a Dantesque hellish circle.

Because I was given the *wrong* diagnosis.
7) We are not all the same, not even those with Asperger's: we are all different.

Some of my contacts are exceptional.

I am, too, in some things.

But I don't care about myself.

8) Hans Asperger.

As an autistic person, I'm fond of that name.

You're right about the stories.

But I couldn't write if they're truly true.

I don't care if he was good or bad or a Nazi as a person.

He was a very important follower after SSucharewa 1926 and Bleuer 1916.

Then there was a woman I adored: Lorna Wing.

Thanks to her, the world treats us differently.

9) I love the way you write and the quality of what you write.

ASPartOfMe.

You are to be commended.

I understood all the implications of your post.

I don't know if it was indirectly directed at mine.

For me, I repeat, it's not a word, Asperger's, but a sense of belonging.

I agree 100%.

It's not a pleasant condition, let's be clear: it's devastating.

But there are people who are even worse off than me.

You know, there are many qualities across the spectrum, as well as immense challenges.

Then some have them much, much, much less.

(Grazie)


Post Scriptum:

I think we should always be humble in life.

Sorry, there's an emoticon I'd never use.

I didn't understand them.



Last edited by Huckleberry Finn on 06 Sep 2025, 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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06 Sep 2025, 5:47 am

I don't look down on autistic people. In fact I consider most autistic people more intelligent than me. I'm not superior. Some autistics think they're superior to NTs. I would rather be NT though.

But it's not a bad thing to want to be NT.

I know this is Reddit but the first three or four posts here explain what I mean. I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if there might be offending posts further down.

https://www.reddit.com/r/autism/comment ... _autistic/


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