NT/ Aspie THread

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Alright, this is probably going to be one of the longest threads on WP, but it is an important one for many reasons. Many people suspect that I am an aspie supremacist, which I am certainly not. I have more NT friends then Aspies. Anyway, since I was writing many threads on NTs, I thought this is important to reconcile our differences.

Here, in this thread, I want Aspies to post what they don't understand about NTs and vice versa.

I will start then

For the NTs: What is the purpose of social hierarchies?
What is the purpose of social status games and why don't you inherently treat people equally and substantiate your bold claims that people are treated equally when it is blindly obvious they are not in your world?

I would like to know why they feel the need to graze in herds. I understand that they like social gatherings, by why must it always involve food? I don't want to watch you eat, I don't want you watching me eat. Trying to talk while eating is just complicated and disgusting... I don't get it. What is the appeal?

Also, when you say things to a person you barely know, like "Wow, you're quiet. Do you ever talk?" or "You never smile", what response are you expecting?

And when you ask a person how they are doing, is that an expression of genuine concern and curiosity about the matter, or is it just an empty greeting? Do you expect me to tell you anything other than "good"? Do I ask you how you are doing, even though I don't want to know?

I shouldn't.

I shouldn't.

But I will.

What is the purpose of social hierarchies? I don't know. But Jane Goodall studied this in other primates and I assume her findings apply to humans too, since we are primates and organize ourselves in roughly the same way. I haven't read her books.

The next question about social status games and is much too loaded for me to answer. It's like the old "when did you stop beating your wife?" question?

What is the appeal of eating in groups? It's bonding and fun. Its appeal can no more be explained than can the appeal of heavy metal be explained to a Clay Aiken fan or vice versa. I get lonely when eating alone. The food doesn't taste as good.

I have never commented "Wow you're quiet. Do you ever talk?" or anything similar to anybody. Some people do it because they are hoping to draw the person into a conversation. This never actually works but I suppose the people who say it are hoping that just this once it will.

"How are you doing?" is something called a "phatic"- a word I learned about a week ago when somebody made a thread here about "phatics". These are phrases that are ritualized. The proper answer is "good". The exception is when you are doing very badly indeed and somebody asks you this in the context of concern rather than the context of greeting. The way to tell the two apart is that the "How are you doing?" that comes from concern instead of greeting will come after another greeting has already been made. In that case, tell them honestly what is wrong because they are giving you permission to vent.

Good point, but when a person doesn't like a particular type a music, the general populace doesn't shun them. "To each his/her own", as they say. If you repeatedly turn down lunch invitations with co-workers, however, they seem to think you are...off. My wife's family doesn't understand my aversion to eating out, either. Still don't really get that one. Eating, to me, seems like a somewhat personal activity, like going to the bathroom (although a lot of people seem to converse there, too).



That's my point, though. Lots of people say that to me and other Aspies (there have been entire threads on it) but it is so obvious that it is a bad opening line, even I realize that. So why use it?



Thank you, that was quite helpful and informative. I thought I was doing it wrong, but I guess my usual response of "good" is acceptable.

drowbot, consider that it is not the act of eating that is at issue, but the repeated rejection of the invitation to take part in a social activity.


M.

Phatigue topic

NT speak. I have learned it, and I do it, but it is still a second language, and the NTs know this, too.

Lately there have been threads on this understanding NTs. I do not find NTs mysterious or deep. I find those that I have met to be rather superficial, and like head games.

Nice, though, when I can be by myself, or on an AS forum website.

Last edited by sartresue on 22 Jul 2009, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You are fatigued with phatics. I like the neologism.

Well, I'm really glad you did. That response was well thought-out, logical, and very helpful on all points

I particularly liked the musical correlation; it really put the point in terms I found easy to understand (unlike the appeal of eating in groups )

-- Vip

I have only one question for NT's.

Why can't they just shut their mouths, at least once in a while ?

Again, this is a loaded question - try again without the hostility, perhaps?


M.

^ If I didn't have to deal with small talk, useless social interaction, and painful noise for hours Monday-Saturday maybe I could remove the hostility...

Are you saying that they see it as a personal rejection, rather than a rejection of the activity?

In a way, yes. It is a social activity (perhaps draw a comparison to dating without the romance) that one is invited to; repeated rejection can move from not being interested in the activity to a rejection of the person over time. Perhaps ask if you can join but not eat (one can always say they ate earlier, for example). While watching others eat may not always be pleasant, it may work out - there will be less conversation while those around you are eating, you can observe without the distraction of eating yourself, and you still acknowledge their efforts of inclusion.


M.

I like that comparison, it frames the point nicely. That makes a lot more sense now! This thread is proving useful.

Most likely yes. Since wanting to eat in groups is so common, their first assumption will be that it's them in particular you don't want to eat with rather than groups in general. For all they know, the minute they leave, you call up your REAL friends and ask them out to lunch. Silly, I know. But rejecting the people rather than the very concept of eating in groups would be more plausible to them.

This is very useful information. An NT/Apsie - Aspie/NT travel guide would be nice.