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Sand
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25 Jul 2009, 12:07 am

The Gail Collins piece in the NY Times today (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/opini ... ef=opinion) is a clear indication that the trend over the recent decades to not care for the mentally disabled in the proper medical institutions has driven them into an extremely distorted form of political life and from the US recent presidency of G.W.Bush and his cohort through the current members of Congress and the various and sundry members of governorships and state legislatures it seems most elected officials would be better for society in the booby hatch rather than in elected positions of power. Unfortunately the citizenry seems not to have had much of a choice since both the Democratic and Republicans have offered demented candidates with severe mental limitations. Since the citizenry is not violently objecting to the financial sector running off with a serious section of the GNP while losing jobs and housing in a financial avalanche I suppose the citizenry could well be disposed of also in booby hatches which leaves one to wonder who should be left out.



zer0netgain
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25 Jul 2009, 6:45 am

Why should they care about the mentally disabled? They don't even care for normal NTs in society.



skafather84
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25 Jul 2009, 10:05 am

Sand wrote:
The Gail Collins piece in the NY Times today (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/opini ... ef=opinion) is a clear indication that the trend over the recent decades to not care for the mentally disabled in the proper medical institutions has driven them into an extremely distorted form of political life and from the US recent presidency of G.W.Bush and his cohort through the current members of Congress and the various and sundry members of governorships and state legislatures it seems most elected officials would be better for society in the booby hatch rather than in elected positions of power. Unfortunately the citizenry seems not to have had much of a choice since both the Democratic and Republicans have offered demented candidates with severe mental limitations. Since the citizenry is not violently objecting to the financial sector running off with a serious section of the GNP while losing jobs and housing in a financial avalanche I suppose the citizenry could well be disposed of also in booby hatches which leaves one to wonder who should be left out.



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25 Jul 2009, 1:26 pm

skafather84 wrote:

.....cartoon....


That is damned clever. I think Huxley was onto something. Weapons of Mass Distraction.

ruveyn



skafather84
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25 Jul 2009, 1:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:

.....cartoon....


That is damned clever. I think Huxley was onto something. Weapons of Mass Distraction.

ruveyn


My biggest concern is that it's used not just to direct and control society through the media but also that it's used to hide all the mistakes and all the wrongs. It's like giving this toy to wipe people's memories of your mistakes and they act 4 year olds with it and simply relieve themselves of social responsibility. Which I can only see destruction coming from that...but maybe I'm being too pessimistic and really, their hiding of the mistakes helps. Really, it has helped in many ways so far.

At least for those of us in the first world.


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25 Jul 2009, 9:44 pm

roflcopter. I remember back in highschool everybody was like "ha ha, that's so silly, that could never happen", and I'm like "damn, it already has 8O".


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25 Jul 2009, 9:58 pm

An excellent comparison between Huxley and Orwell there. Bradbury also predicted a world where people are controlled by distractions such as television (in Fahrenheit 451). As Beatty explains, the censorship that exists is largely unnecessary because no one wants to read anyways.


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Sand
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25 Jul 2009, 10:08 pm

Orwell wrote:
An excellent comparison between Huxley and Orwell there. Bradbury also predicted a world where people are controlled by distractions such as television (in Fahrenheit 451). As Beatty explains, the censorship that exists is largely unnecessary because no one wants to read anyways.


I submitted the original post as a piece of sarcasm but the current discussion nicely points out that the internet with Twitter and Facebook is only one of the components distracting the current western society from the evident decline in interest in prime values of our culture from voting to real public concern in health, education, work, corruption, etc to the passing distractions of the death of Michael Jackson and the idiotic sexual scandals of the politicians.



skafather84
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26 Jul 2009, 1:34 am

Orwell wrote:
As Beatty explains, the censorship that exists is largely unnecessary because no one wants to read anyways.



Not quite. The censorship is done by pushing trivial matters to the forefront. How much more coverage have you see of Michael Jackson or that stupid incident between Gates and the police officer than about the actual "heathcare" plan they're about to pass under our noses?


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28 Jul 2009, 10:48 pm

This is why I don't watch or read the so-called mainstream media news. And my statistical analysis of elections leaves me with little confidence that voting is a meaningful act in national races in the U.S., unless you happen to live in certain states.

The problem in mental healthcare goes back to the Reagan era, when a shift away from the old-style of long-term hospitalization began. It has since accelerated, and several psychiatrists I've seen have told me that they can't hospitalize many of their patients because of policy and coverage issues. And they have to release these patients long before they are ready to be released.

Basically, it's a statistics game. What are the risks versus profit margins associated with various forms of treatment? The calculations are made, of course based on liability and other laws as well as state and federal regulations, then the course of treatment during hospitalization is determined, all before an actual patient has even walked into clinician's office or ER.

I've seen this up close with a suicidal family member who was discharged while still wholly unstable, but just safe enough for the hospital to avoid liability.

Orwell and Huxley were both right: illness is health, and many people don't realize otherwise because of all the distractions.



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28 Jul 2009, 11:17 pm

Aoi wrote:
Basically, it's a statistics game. What are the risks versus profit margins associated with various forms of treatment?



Health and wellness aren't a game of profit.


/there are some things that one isn't supposed to profit on; others' illness and war being the two big ones.


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28 Jul 2009, 11:18 pm

Aoi wrote:
This is why I don't watch or read the so-called mainstream media news. And my statistical analysis of elections leaves me with little confidence that voting is a meaningful act in national races in the U.S., unless you happen to live in certain states.

It's not meaningful in any state. In the last presidential election, I was registered to vote in Florida, a "swing" state to which pundits attached great importance since it has often been a deciding factor in national elections. When the election results came in, not only was my vote utterly insignificant in determining how Florida went, the entire freaking state was irrelevant to the election. The election was called before the Florida results were in because even if Florida went the other way, the election was already decided.


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28 Jul 2009, 11:24 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Health and wellness aren't a game of profit.


/there are some things that one isn't supposed to profit on; others' illness and war being the two big ones.

Well... they are, actually. People who provide us with food and housing also do so with an eye towards profit, so it seems unfair to lambast the health care industry for profiting from others' illness unless you are similarly critical of the agricultural industry for profiting from others' hunger. And if you're going to do that, you may as well go all out and advocate straight-up communism.


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28 Jul 2009, 11:30 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Health and wellness aren't a game of profit.


/there are some things that one isn't supposed to profit on; others' illness and war being the two big ones.

Well... they are, actually. People who provide us with food and housing also do so with an eye towards profit, so it seems unfair to lambast the health care industry for profiting from others' illness unless you are similarly critical of the agricultural industry for profiting from others' hunger. And if you're going to do that, you may as well go all out and advocate straight-up communism.




Godwin's law needs to be expanded to include a communist clause in it.

Someone is bound, at some point, to be called a nazi or a communist.


:roll:


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28 Jul 2009, 11:39 pm

Explain then the difference between the healthcare industry profiting from illness and the agricultural industry profiting from hunger. I don't see any substantive difference: in both cases someone has something that is essential to your survival and will only give it to you if they can make a profit off it.


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Sand
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28 Jul 2009, 11:55 pm

Orwell wrote:
Explain then the difference between the healthcare industry profiting from illness and the agricultural industry profiting from hunger. I don't see any substantive difference: in both cases someone has something that is essential to your survival and will only give it to you if they can make a profit off it.


Food suppliers have enough competition amongst like products to give a realistic control of prices. Drug companies can gain monopolies of vitally necessary life and death products and overcharge outrageously to dying people and this very frequently oversteps common morality to an immoral and greedy extent. Much of the basic research of these products takes place in universities and research laboratories and the technology is transferred to commercial houses who pretend that their mercantile expenses are vital basic research to propagandize their excuses for grossly overcharging helpless customers.