Why most Asperger don't believe in free will?

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LibertarianAS
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16 Apr 2011, 5:11 pm

Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.



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16 Apr 2011, 5:22 pm

Free will is stupid. That's why we don't believe it. :P



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16 Apr 2011, 5:23 pm

The illusion of free will only persists because you cannot see the full picture. If you understood all the paths that add up to your decisions, you'd understand that free will rarely is. I think there are moments of it; but for the most part, it doesn't exist.


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cdfox7
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16 Apr 2011, 5:50 pm

There is no such thing as free will because will will always have a cost attached to it.
Sometimes that cost is called inheritance tax.



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16 Apr 2011, 6:00 pm

I believe in free will, but I also believe in inertia. It's easier to keep a ball rolling then to get it rolling in the first place. The familiar path is more predictable so we tend to stick to it. Is there a degree of determinism? Yes, doing more of an action tends to reinforce it. But for the most part your decisions are preceded by conscious thought.



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16 Apr 2011, 6:15 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
But for the most part your decisions are preceded by conscious thought.

This doesn't disprove determinsim. Thoughts don't necessarily occur without a physiological causation.



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16 Apr 2011, 6:26 pm

marshall wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
But for the most part your decisions are preceded by conscious thought.

This doesn't disprove determinsim. Thoughts don't necessarily occur without a physiological causation.
Free will is defined as the capacity to make decisions independent of external circumstances. It doesn't mean making decisions independent of internal precedents. To add to what I was saying, actions that are preceded by subconscious thought are either instinctive reactions or conscious thoughts that became second nature.



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16 Apr 2011, 6:48 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


You are talking about a very small number of people. How can you make such wide generalization.

ruveyn



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16 Apr 2011, 7:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:
LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


You are talking about a very small number of people. How can you make such wide generalization.

ruveyn
Yeah seriously a list of traits can't accurately predict what paradigms we will come to hold. What paradigms we come to hold involves interaction with so many subtle aspects of our cognition.



marshall
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16 Apr 2011, 7:16 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
marshall wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
But for the most part your decisions are preceded by conscious thought.

This doesn't disprove determinsim. Thoughts don't necessarily occur without a physiological causation.
Free will is defined as the capacity to make decisions independent of external circumstances. It doesn't mean making decisions independent of internal precedents. To add to what I was saying, actions that are preceded by subconscious thought are either instinctive reactions or conscious thoughts that became second nature.

But even internal precedents are not necessarily independent from past external circumstances. Anyways, I think any definition of free-will that necessarily denies determinism is flawed.



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16 Apr 2011, 7:30 pm

LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


Your friends experiment is interesting, but of course the subjects flaws/conditions tell us nothing of the validity of their beliefs.

Free will doesn't exist, because we are a collection of biochemical cogs that necessarily react. Most arguments against Free Will fall into the "gift of god", "non-material force", or "determinism = fatalism, so I'm just meant to disbelieve" category.

Of course, as a Scientifically minded man. I would like to have some experimental evidence showing that our decisions are made before we think we make them ourselves: And we do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4nwTTmcgs


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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2011, 7:52 pm

Its technically impossible - even if there is a human soul. We make decisions based on a) genes and our brain structure (what works for us, what doesn't) , b) upbringing, c) temporal states or stimuli, d) amounts of information that we either have or don't have at a given time. What we do is what we were going to do from the beginning of time, at any waking moment of the day. If you walk into a Casino and throw lucky 7's you'll never repeat that hand again perfectly, carbon copy, but you can replay everything, from the time you walk in the door till the time you're collecting your winnings - 10 times, 100,000 times, 1,000,000 times, there's no reason why it would be different because factors, atmospherics are identical.

Probabilities are the same thing. If the weather man says there's a 60% chance of rain on Tuesday, there's no such thing as 60% chance of rain, it will either rain or it won't, just that they'd never guess in full detail no identify every point or household receiving rain over it. Thus probabilities or given options aren't free will nor are they really possibilities, rather its just what our best margin of error tells us because, well, we still never have perfect information unless its universe of ideas or a closed system that we created in its entirety and even that is a very small, artificial, and hypothetical set up.

Its because of these things that I'm a full determinist. Whether I'm ultra-weird or sitting here with my arms and legs tied in pretzel knots as I rock.......not to many people see me that way, I have a good amount of friends and unlike a lot of people perhaps I don't have a hostility toward religious belief of things of that nature. It just happens that I'm a believer in the notion that everything is absolutely 100% clamped down to change of causality and that anything that doesn't appear to be (random error or energy emerging in space, dark noise or whatever) that it still appears at a fixed time and place, that once that time has passed there's no such thing as regressing and going back for a different result, what happened happened, period.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 16 Apr 2011, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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16 Apr 2011, 7:54 pm

ryan93 wrote:
LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


Your friends experiment is interesting, but of course the subjects flaws/conditions tell us nothing of the validity of their beliefs.

Free will doesn't exist, because we are a collection of biochemical cogs that necessarily react. Most arguments against Free Will fall into the "gift of god", "non-material force", or "determinism = fatalism, so I'm just meant to disbelieve" category.

Of course, as a Scientifically minded man. I would like to have some experimental evidence showing that our decisions are made before we think we make them ourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4nwTTmcgs
This experiment leaves a lot of room for interpretation. It's no surprise to me that subconscious reaction is faster than conscious thought. It doesn't disprove the notion of free will since our subconscious reactions are associated with prior experience, conscious thoughts which became second nature, instinct, etc.



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16 Apr 2011, 8:19 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


Your friends experiment is interesting, but of course the subjects flaws/conditions tell us nothing of the validity of their beliefs.

Free will doesn't exist, because we are a collection of biochemical cogs that necessarily react. Most arguments against Free Will fall into the "gift of god", "non-material force", or "determinism = fatalism, so I'm just meant to disbelieve" category.

Of course, as a Scientifically minded man. I would like to have some experimental evidence showing that our decisions are made before we think we make them ourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4nwTTmcgs
This experiment leaves a lot of room for interpretation. It's no surprise to me that subconscious reaction is faster than conscious thought. It doesn't disprove the notion of free will since our subconscious reactions are associated with prior experience, conscious thoughts which became second nature, instinct, etc.


If only the OP could give us an detailed account of the findings of the friend's experiment then things can be more clearer. tho I can raise the question into this experiment being a work of fiction :?



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16 Apr 2011, 9:09 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
LibertarianAS wrote:
Only a handful of prominent historical figures denied the existence of free will (at least for non-religious reasons). Yet a disproportionately large number of them had many symptoms associated with the autism spectrum.

Einstein, Russell, and Spinoza (ERS) each denied the existence of free will, and each has been repeatedly “diagnosed” with Asperger’s Syndrome.

One of my best friends(he is a Psychologists student) also conducted a preliminary study with 192 random subjects outside the local public library. He found that a composite score, averaging 10 primary features of Asperger’s Syndrome, was significantly correlated with incompatibilism. Self-reported difficulty with making friends was also significantly correlated with incompatibilism.

From my experience(both personal and online) I met only a very few people who believe in an"100% determinism theory" and most of them are....ehm the weirdest people you can think

I find all of that fascinating, if only suggestive.


Your friends experiment is interesting, but of course the subjects flaws/conditions tell us nothing of the validity of their beliefs.

Free will doesn't exist, because we are a collection of biochemical cogs that necessarily react. Most arguments against Free Will fall into the "gift of god", "non-material force", or "determinism = fatalism, so I'm just meant to disbelieve" category.

Of course, as a Scientifically minded man. I would like to have some experimental evidence showing that our decisions are made before we think we make them ourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ4nwTTmcgs
This experiment leaves a lot of room for interpretation. It's no surprise to me that subconscious reaction is faster than conscious thought. It doesn't disprove the notion of free will since our subconscious reactions are associated with prior experience, conscious thoughts which became second nature, instinct, etc.


I'm not so sure. I get your point that subconscious = semi autonomous = deterministic and predictable, but what about if someone was trying to actively beat the machine? That would be well within the realm of MY decision. If I decide something, and someone tells me my action was determined before I decided it, then obviously the action caused the feeling of "decision", and not visa versa. I would call that "no free will", from a naturalistic point of view.

Quote:
If only the OP could give us an detailed account of the findings of the friend's experiment then things can be more clearer. tho I can raise the question into this experiment being a work of fiction


That is also pretty likely. Seems like an oddly specific think to be doing a survey on :shrug:


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16 Apr 2011, 9:22 pm

We naturally have free will, but our choices are culturally conditionned. <.<