I've asked this before a million times (well, just alot)

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there have been threads debating whether aspergers/asd can be mistaken for just social anxiety/introverted personality etc


so i'm just going to ask:

is it possible (and if so, HOW POSSIBLE is it?) that i DON'T have ASD, and instead just have an introverted personality, social anxiety, learning problems, trouble making eye contact, etc?

I've been asked this directly in threads and I've been in a few of those types of threads as well.

I have been through the DSM, I've read all the sypmtoms lists from every reputable source I can get my hands on. Many conditions have overlapping symptoms. I've gone through as checked and doublechecked what I feel I do and do not have.

A doctor suggested I had social anxiety disorder. I do not have anxiety when I need to talk to people, I don't fear them or social interactions. I'm missing key components of that dx.

Trouble making eye contact is a symptoms in several conditions - it was suggested I could a few different personality disorders. Again, key components of those dx's are missing in my case. I do not experience hallucinations/delusions, paranoia, angry outbursts, poor impulse control, substance abuse or many of the other symptoms of the variety of personality disorders.

I really think that AS can, especially in adult cases, be a dx of last resort when all other dx's have been ruled out. plenty of people here have gone through a life with a variety of misdiagnoses because doctors are, generally, not very well versed in AS in adults. There is no dx criteria in the DSM for it and the childrens dx is not always indicative of adult learned adaptive bahavior.

Is it possible that you don't have ASD? I'm sure anything is possible but there are distinct differences in an ASD dx and those conditions not on the spectrum. Learn those differences and find some answers. Or find an extremely knowledgable doctor in autism and have the discussion with him/her.

It is possible to have those things and not an ASD. Social anxiety could lead one to feel uncomfortable with eye contact as well, at least that seems quite logical to me. Some introverts have ASD, some don't. Some have social anxiety, and some have nothing wrong with them; they are just introverted. Also, not all people with ASD have learning problems in the traditional sense of the word. Well, my definition with learning problems is "trouble academically at school" due to a learning disability in reading, math, etc. Anyway, in this particular post, I am talking about academics only, and only some people with ASDs have trouble with their academics.

I cannot say HOW POSSIBLE it is because I don't know you. All anyone can really say is: yes, it is possible. If anyone gives you an answer of "well there is 62% chance you don't have AS" then that is completely bogus. No one here can possibly give you that information.

http://www.socialphobia.org/fact.html#top
Latest government epidemiological data show social anxiety affects over 7% of the population at any given time. The lifetime prevalence rate (i.e., the chances of developing social anxiety disorder at any time during the lifespan) stands at above 13%. Aspies are on the order of 0.1 to 0.5% of the population, a significantly smaller percentage.

Not only that, mental health issues typically appear in early adulthood for the first time.

Thus, folks typically look for developmental issues during childhood and mental health issues in early adults. How likely is it that developmental issues were
missed? Quite likely 40 years ago, not so likely 10 years ago.

As a young Aspie, I was blissfully ignorant of my social development issues--how was I to know what I didn't have if nobody told me?

I'm still not certain if I have social anxiety rather than Asperger's. I read faces too well, if anything. Not bragging, it causes me much anxiety to watch any negative facial movements a person makes and it is debilitating. No problem with empathy that I know of. I have way too much self-awareness in that I see myself as a "third person" in a scene and I can't watch and be that person at the same time, if you know what I mean, leading to poor social functionality.

Sensory sensititivities, though, are not part of the definition of social anxiety and I have them. Also obsessive interests and executive dysfunction and some other things.

I think it's a nebulous mass of conditions all interlinked with one another, hard to separate out.

Do you have the sensory perception issues? When people talk, do you not hear some of the words? Do you have motor clumsiness? Do you have difficulty articulating your thoughts in words? Can you focus intensely? Do you have narrow, special interests? Are you stressed by stimuli in your environment, like lots of conversations, bright lights, loud sounds, and so on? I'd say this differentiates true AS from psychological conditions. AS brains respond to sensory input, and generate output (words, gestures, etc) differently than other brains. Once you know what to look for, I think the difference will be obvious. If it isn't, you probably don't.

Here is my reasoning on the issue.


First, the personality disorders.
Sigmund Freud gives the best statement to describe them: "They are the last people on Earth who should have this disorder." The personality disorders can be best look at as a severe discrepency between a person's ACTUAL PERSONALITY and their BEHAVIOR. ,and they are the only class of psychological disorder that is entirely 1st person point of view. Autistics experience meltdowns. Schizophrenics experience hallucinations and delusions. People with panic attacks experience panic attacks. No such things exists for the personality disorders. They just have the normal fight-or-flight response but they do not experience anything unique. Their emotions and behavior is the disorder and it is ALWAYS projected OUTWARD, never inward. Basically the personality disorder are people with extravagant behaviors, extreme emotions, and bizzare opinions but they themselves do not experience anything odd, in fact, most don't even have stress. Their extravagant behaviors and extreme emotions is the disorder in of itself. No cause, and no correlation with anything. That is the reason why personality disorders shouldn't be diagnosed in Autism, because Autism is the cause of the behavior in people with Autism. There is no know cause for the behavior of the people with personality diosrders, the behavior is the the actual disorder.
As was pointed out in the other threads, people with schizoid personality disorder do not have schizophrenia, rather, their behavior will seem irrational like that expected of someone with schizophrenia, but they do not experience hallucinations or delusions. They do not actually have schizophrena, just the odd behavior. But the personality disorder isn't their actual personality either. Their personality in most cases is almost the exact opposite of their behavior. In Passive-Aggressive personality disorder, the person's personality is actually passive, but their behevior is aggressive.
So for a person to be diagnosed with a personality disorder, they can not have any other major psychological disorder, their personality must be opposite their overall behavior, and they should be over the age of 18, to rule out the possibility that there is a learning or cognitive disability.


Motion sickness is feeling dizziness, fatigue, and nausea, upset stomach, vomiting, etc when the body is in motion such as during a car ride, airplane flight, or boat ride. Motion Sickness is the disorder, car, boat, and airplane are circumstances when it happens. In other words, car, boat and airplane are instances of motion sickness, each is not an independent disorder of it;s own.

For Social Anxiety, Anxiety is the disorder. Social circumstances is just and instant or category where people experience their symptoms much like a car is a category of where people experience motion sickness. The Anxiety is the disorder, and it's not caused by lack of social skills, cognitive defects, or past bullying, etc. Anxiety is the disorder, it just happens that for them, the anxiety is limited to social instances. It's not caused by social factors; Social Anxiety occurs when the person is in a social environment,and only when the person is in a social environment.

Both the personality disorders and social anxiety have normal social skills, it's the nature of their disorders that makes it hard for them to be social.

Anxiety is a symptom of Autism. For Autistics, the anxiety is caused by the effects of having Autism, meaning there would be no anxiety if there was no Autism. So the main question to ask, is would you still have anxiety if you did not have Autism?

The answer is YES. I have said this many times before. In order to be consided to have AS, you need to be diagnosed with something like 80 specific traits or so, not just a few that lots of people share.

) i cant stand busy places where people rub up against me
) when people talk, i only hear some words, yes - i have to ask them to repeat themselves, but often (as in another forum) ive had the extra buffer space needed to understand what they said. my parents made me get hearing tests when i was younger as i didnt respond to my name, etc though i was proved to have normal hearing
) i sometimes knock into door frames, and coudnt kick a ball to save myself, also i couldnt play football at school - i was always made to be in goal during PE, and then everyone complained when i couldnt stop the ball
) i often cant say how i feel, i can do basic happy/sad etc though. i think in moving pictures with sound, like a private cinema in my head where the movie is what im thinking
) i like music and thats about it
) whenever im in an environment with lots of people, i sweat profusely and cant think beyond half an hour so i just need to get out of the place.

i have no concept of facial expression, and everyone complains i have a monotone voice.

and i keep wanting to hug people ven tho im told its wrong (somehow)

Still not really a lot of information. What my psych told me is that some people have social anxiety that kind of manifests some autistic-like characteristics. If the anxiety was there first, then that is likely the issue. Some people have trouble making eye contact, concentrating on conversations, etc because they are so anxious. Even if you have ASD, I would also say you have SOME form of anxiety as well because ASD does not equal social anxiety. You can have both, but don't have to. Being soooo anxious in groups of people is a sign of anxiety, not a sign of ASD. Now, people can have anxiety BECAUSE of the experiences they've had due to ASD, but just being anxious in a crowd does not mean you have ASD, it means you have anxiety (either with or without ASD). I have a lot of sensory issues, so the noise a crowd makes can be overbearing, but it is not the crowd itself. In fact, when I am walking through a crowd of people, I often don't even see people, I see objects that I have to manouver around, just as if I was walking through the forest and I had to make sure I didn't bump into any trees. The crowd itself does not bother me at all unless there is some sensory issue attached to it. I am often in my old little world and don't pay attention to those around me. I know it is similar for a lot of other autistic people who do not have social anxiety too.

http://autism.about.com/od/aspergerssyn ... adults.htm
It's not unusual, says Nichols, for a patient to come in expecting an AS diagnosis and to leave with a different diagnosis. "Distinguishing between social phobias or shyness and actual impairment with AS can be very tough for a layperson," she says. Other disorders, such as obsessive compulsive disorder (compulsions, hoarding, needing to do things over and over) or social anxiety can sometimes look like AS. If doctors do pick up on these other disorders, they can recommend appropriate therapy and/or medication.

ok, maybe im just weird...

its not a social phobia, i dont avoid being with people - im just cr** at doing so

im terrified of riding a bus on a different route for a first time, but after ive been with somebody im ok gradually
fire alarms really unnerve me

i cant say for sure, but i dont think i was always anxious
however, i never knew how to speak to people or what was appropriate, (in kindergarten for example), or how everyone thought i was deaf as i did not respond to my name although hearing tests proved i could hear with no problems. theres lots of these weird things about me. i have been to my doc & multiple learning psychs, but theres a long waiting line for a dx, however theyre sure theres something there. id just like to know what because its really unnerving...


if i do something enough times, i have a "ruleset/list of parameters" if you will by which i can expect certain things or act in certain ways - but if flung into an unknown situation... error 500

ASD is when you can't tell what others are thinking or feeling and you have intense interests, someone whose introverted, anxious, has learning problems and dislikes eye contact might still be good at reading facial expressions and social ques.

i just have difficulty reading others - i can do it, just very badly

I definitely think there is some anxiety in there somewhere because of your explanations. If you want to know for sure, and if you want to know whether ASD is there or not, your best bet is to go get an evaluation done.