Theory of Your Own Mind

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I was reading up on Theory of Mind and it suggested not only do people with AS have difficultly in recognizing other peoples state of mind but also have a bit of difficultly understanding their OWN emotions and state of mind. I would hate to think that this is the case.

Does this sound like an accurate description??

Opinions?

It is true that some Aspies have difficulty knowing what they are feeling (it's called alexithymia) but I've never heard of not knowing your own thoughts--I'm not even sure how that would be possible.

I think this is something that isn't discussed enough. It's something I've been thinking about quite a bit since my diagnosis.

Part of my growing understanding of myself is the realisation that I don't have a coherent sense of self. I suspect most of the ('normal') people around me do have such a thing. From the moment they wake up, and in all their interactions, they are aware of themselves being 'this person, myself'. Perhaps they narrate their ongoing activities with an inner voice.

I'm conscious of not having a coherent avatar, of not being a consistent social actor. My personality is a sort of amorphous cloud of images and thoughts. This means that when I interact with someone I don't have a picture of myself in the encounter, so I can't see their view of me and how I can change my speech and action to influence the course of the conversation. Hence, no social imagination.

There is an idea that since autistic people can't instinctively see 'other minds' then they are self-centred. This is unfair. I don't think there is a 'self' as generally understood to be centred around.

I feel this lack of a consistent personality also leads to my 'poor executive functioning'. Not finishing things, generally being disorganised. It's because I don't visualise myself as a person doing things in the world.

Also, I have always been out of touch with my immediate emotions. There can be a delay of several hours (or even years!) before I get rightfully annoyed about the way someone has treated me, or recognised how I actually felt about something.

Having said this, the insights I have had from being diagnosed with AS have helped me a lot with these issues. If only it had come 20-30 years ago.

These are my observations anyway. Thanks for posting the question.

Whalewatcher! Excellent summary in your post. This was about the second or third time in these forums that somebody's post was written about me.

Well, technically, wouldn't auditory hallucinations during psychosis be not knowing one's own thoughts? Since the person isn't recognizing that their own brain is producing the thought/words/phrases, not an external force/being?

I don't have any trouble recognizing how I feel 98% of the time. There are times where I'm just "plegh" but that happens to everyone at some point.

Two of these guys:

Sampling the form of inner experience in three adults with Asperger Syndrome

Their cases Nelson and Peter both seem to have trouble reflecting on their own thoughts. Incidentally, this study also implicitly demonstrates a possible treatment for this issue, given how Nelson improved in the thought-sampling procedure after awhile.

Whalewatcher and Krabo: Now this is interesting! Not only did someone's post exactly reflect my own opinions, but someone said that the post reflected their thoughts exactly! Yay for recursion!

I simply have to add a post saying that your post reflects my opinions, just to turn it into a fractal zoom.

Oftentimes I find myself torn by my emotions and am unable to identify them. Therefore over my lifetime I developed ways of hiding that. My BP friend knows her emotions very well and tears herself from them. Over her lifetime she developed ways of hiding that as well.
Interesting how different self defense mechanisms often result in similar responses.

l think it's basically the cause of the impairment with TOM when it comes to other people.

The whole thing seems very misunderstood by NT's. This is one area of AS l do identify with somewhat.

l look at it like not having a focus on your "self",you don't feel like your own thoughts come from inside of you necessarily. Not in a way that's described in psychosis but more like not discriminating between your own feelings and objective thoughts that anyone could have. Thus not processing how "your" actions affect other people. You know what l mean?

The clinicians describe at as an autistic person projecting their own thoughts onto others ad l'm not really sure how they came to that conclusion.

lt isn't assuming that all people think the way you do, l would say it's more about not assuming that the way you think is exclusive to "yourself" and not making the kind of allowances for other people or calculations the way NT's do because of it.

l wouldn't consider it an impairment and l really don't until l see the way some NT's naturally think about what they know about another person, the person's belief system, etc and basically psychoanalyzing them before responding to a person's question.

lt's impressive l guess but in a way l don't like it, l don't alter what l say to fit my "idea'' of someone else, l'm not constantly trying to put a person into a box, it doesn't mean l don't understand that they have their own thoughts.

I used to be extremely unaware of myself till a few years ago. I always attributed it to an abusive/neglectful childhood where my needs and desires were suppressed harshly if they didn't suit/fit those in power in the family. But it might be alexythimia, now that you guys mention it...

I used to not have a clue why I was irritated/furious at someone, which led everyone (including therapists) to think I was an angry person and had an anger problem. I remember how I became furious at a guy on a first date, a seemingly great guy, and how guilty I felt about it. On the third date I discovered he was (very) married, and that's what I had felt on the first date, but because I had no idea what made me furious, everyone thought I was being intolerant of the guy.

For me I do have trouble knowing my emotions and even if I am feeling something really bad I do not have the ability all too much to know what it is. First off I know that one day that I was stressing really bad, when I got out of the store one of my friends was there, he said for me to come over. I knew that I wasn't in the mood to go out with them in fact I just wanted to go home. When I was talking to them I knew there was something bothering me I just didn't know what. Later on I was told by that same friend that I was looking the angriest that he has ever seen me. And I did not know at the time that I was that angry just extremely annoyed at having to deal with him. That is the same way if I am feeling sad, though I know that my chest is hurting though I do not feel all that sad even though I am about to cry. Though I know one thing for sure is that when I am energetic I feel quite happy, or if I am being depreesed I just do not feel it all too much, I just feel like I do not want to see my friends or do nothing much else except stay at home.

Every person on the face of this earth has experienced troubles when it comes to entangling and understanding their own emotions, feelings and what have you. I really don't understand the emphasis on people with AS in this particular case.

People with AS often experience difficulties in reading facial expressions, at least I do, and that makes it a bit harder to recognise the state of mind of others.