what does neurodiversity mean to you

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if autism is a spectrum,

and we value neurodiversity,


why do we operate on these forums

with this binary: neurotypical | autistic


i can see that it can be useful, but


isn't the point of a spectrum to blur where the line is drawn? isn't the point of diversity to recognize how different every mind is, based on genetics, family, experience, choices, etc.? maybe we have lots of intersecting spectrums that extend infinitely, with space for the uniqueness of every individual. rather than yes or no, in or out, we or other we always have I and we always have us.

i understand we are trying to describe patterns (it has been helpful for me to utilize this framework already) but while i am enjoying reading these forums i almost feel compelled to fit in or not fit in, to come to a decision to accept a label or to not, and then to manage new expectations of who i am and what that means, which kind of muddles the point of self-acceptance with a new social code that needs to be interpreted, understood, and adhered to, and self-acceptance is i think the true value of most of what goes on here.

maybe this is just how the community manages itself in the context of an oppressive ableist society. re-using the binaries used to oppress to create some space to breathe and feel a little free. like a strong black or african identity to combat white supremacist anti-blackness, even though the categories of race and racial identity have european colonial origins to begin with. but it creates space to breathe, space to fight, a space to work on creating "a world in which many worlds fit".

i guess interrogating any category of meaning, any binary, ends up with absurdity in the end, so maybe i should just let it be, and enjoy the space as it exists.

does anyone feel this way? am i being offensive? (if i am let know so i can understand) what does neurodiversity mean, and what kind of society do we want to live in?

/endramble

I think one day people will just realize that human brains are too complicated to sort into neat little categories.

someone with not enough broader autism phenotype/ minor autistic traits to be diagnosed with at least PDDNOS isnt on the spectrum; to be on the autistic spectrum requires the triad of impairments.
people with BAP/some autistic traits dont have a typical neurology presentation so woud be considered neuro diverse.

IMO, the main difference between "autism spectrum" and neurodiversity is that autism spectrum is based on impairments while neurodiversity is based on differences / preferences. Thus, you can be high on neurodiversity traits and if you have good coping skills, you could fall long outside of the definition of being autistic, yet have the same basic traits as those diagnosed with autism / Asperger.

I don't think you are being offensive.
I think the purpose of this forum is to have a place where we can relate to others who are similar to us. Here we are not the weird ones, but the normal ones. the way we experience the world is normal in this world and we can discus things here that we don't discus in the other world, which is the world of NTs.
So the binary us/them concept serves a purpose here, but in reality, yes, humanity is broken up into many intersecting spectrums.
I can tell you what neurodiversity means to me.
A long time ago I went into a shop to get a milkshake. The waitress brought me the milkshake and went back behind the counter and said "there's something wrong with her" to the other waitress.
All I did was order a milkshake, I didn't know what I did wrong.
A Janitor in a place I used to work told me that people in another department thought I was weird.
I don't know what he was talking about because I didn't know what I did wrong.
My parents were always saying something was wrong with me, they wanted me to change but I couldn't because I didn't know what I did wrong.
I lived for over 60 years in a world I didn't understand, where I was isolated and never included because I was somehow "wrong".
Neurodiversity means not being "wrong".

Neurodiversity doesn't really have a singular meaning to me.

To me, everyone is neurodiverse. I don't have to repeat others in saying that no matter how similar two people may appear, their differences (as a result of their different brains) could actually be quite striking. However in the context of making it easier for someone to grasp not even the basics of neuroscience, I accept that the term could be used to differentiate between seemingly larger, more obvious diversities (such as ASD vs NT).

I don't like it when I read posts that clearly contain the underlying falsity that autistics are unique (not one person with ASD is the same as another), while all neurotypicals are as the name suggests, 'typical and normal'. If that's someone's definition of neurodiverse then it's definitely not something that I can agree with.

Like have said before, am on two other forums that are primarily NT.
Not really seeing that much difference between here and there.
Especially in the Random Discussion section.
Will say the NT's seem far too diverse to me to be lumped into one category
and seem to have just as many problems.
There are scores of NT's who are viewed as misfits etc.

I read and post on a forum that is primarily people who don't have ASD where the term neurodiversity is often used. It bothers me because it always seems to be labeling people as other.

Since the outcome seems to be bad things happening if I label myself as having ASD I try not to, but it creates a very us versus them experience where I feel left out, and I feel the people using the label neurodiversity lose out on the actual experience of understanding that they and people with ASD can relate. Because people are being boiled down into labels, when that's not what we are, we are not objects and we are not labels.

I think we use binaries for simplicity. Some people mistaken them for concrete entities. They can become identities, though; e.g. no one's a pure nationality but they identify with the nationality because they share traits with it.

To me, neurodiversity is exactly what you said - respecting and accepting different kinds of minds, regardless of whether they may be described as NT, ASD, ADHD, LD, etc. It's just recognizing the unique needs and abilities of each individual and accepting them, instead of trying to mold the person into something that is very foreign to how he/she operates.

I agree with a lot of what norny said. To me, there isn't any such thing as neurodiversity; everyone's minds are unique, and I guess that makes us all diverse in a way.

Last edited by Lillikoi on 11 Mar 2014, 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Neurodiversity means that the opinions of neurotypicals are just as valid as the opinions of the autistic so you might as well just go with the flow because there is no advantage to being autistic because if you think autism is better then you have a superiority complex so the key in life is to learn to be mediocre.

Summary for the TL DNR folk: The terms neurotypical and neurodiverse have utility. The OP should relax about the rest.

I don't think people here do, but it might appear that way because people are trying to come to grips with their own neurologically based issues or those of people close to them. In that context, it really makes sense to use these terms to try to deepen understanding of what autism is and how to make the best of it.



No.
The point is to recognize that there is a range of traits, behaviors and symptoms that make sense grouped together as "autism" and that are different in specific and similar ways to the diverse range of traits and behaviors that are seen in neurotypical people.


I am not sure that the concept "diversity" can meaningfully be said to have a point. But no, the utility of the term "neurodiversity" does not come from rendering all distinctions meaningless and looking at all humanity as an undifferentiated mass of difference.

There are meaningful and useful distinctions to be drawn between typical neurology and various divergent neurologies including autism. As someone who only became aware of my own autism in the last 12-18 months, I have found these labels and terms very helpful in understanding myself and others. Not using these terms would not be helpful.


Describing patterns--patterns that actually exist and have direct meaning in peoples lives--is exactly what it's about and it's very useful. I don't think most people care if you fit in or not. Try to relax a little about all this and accept yourself for yourself. If something that people are saying is helpful, take it in, otherwise let it go.



Yes, let it be.
To me, "neurodiversity" means recognition that there are brains with "normal" states that are not typical and that that is OK. We are entitled to be what and who we are.
What kind of society do I want to live in? Easy: I want to live in "The Culture" as described by Iain Banks. Unfortunately, that's fiction. If it wasn't people would be able to choose their neurologies and change them at different phases of their long, long lives.

Back in the real world, I want to live in a culture of rights and responsibilities in which people's differences are respected and accommodations are made for those that need them. I want to live in culture that rewards productivity without creating poverty and I want people to try to be decent to each other.

To me if you believe people should be understood and accepted for having a neurology that is different from the majority you have a neuro diverse viewpoint.

To me if you believe that people who have a minority neurology are wrong and should either be separated or made to be normal you do not have a neurodiverse viewpoint

Precisely...Whether DSM or ICD there is an attempt to map humans by the level and type of divergence they exhibit in their mind, brain and behavior from a mythical "norm". Having identified differences then there is this pigeonholing or labeling that is supposed to put us all into neat categories.

Nuerodiversity is the final frontier for a truly integrated human society. LBGT. ethnic minorities, women, physical disability (wheelchairs) and other minorities have made great strides in equality. The last great hurdle is the acceptance of those of us whom may not behave, speak or respond in a nice preordained scripted way.

Neurodiversity implies the notion that Autism is not a disorder but rather just a normal part of human diversity, and that Autistic traits involve both extreme weaknesses and extreme strengths.

Interesting scientific publication on Autism and neurodiversity :
Autism as a Natural Human Variation: Reflections on the Claims of the Neurodiversity Movement

Interesting scientific publication on Autism and neurodiversity :
The Cerebral Subject and the Challenge of Neurodiversity