Is suicide always irrational (beyond euthanasia)?

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A poster in another thread claimed that suicide, with the exception of euthanasia is motivated by irrational factors.

I do not believe this is the case. If a person is driven to a situation where the burden of living appears less attractive than the prospect of death how can the argument be made that the choice to take your own life be irrational?

The obvious example would be the case of a transexual person being refused SRS. It could also apply to other situations, such as someone who has been outed as a paedophile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Conradt

Because committing suicide denies the opportunity to find happiness later on. In the given example being denied benefits is temporary. It's just one path to achieving your goals: Saving, looking for better income, employment opportunities, looking to charities/ kick-starter etc.

If we measure the value of life in happiness consumed, suicide brings the ability to consume happiness to 0. Current levels of dissatisfaction has no bearing on future levels.

Furthermore suicide is an inherently selfish endeavor as other people are hurt by your attempts to escape stress.

I think the better option would be getting them SRS, as part of their treatment....

It could also be argued that it is inherently selfish to expect someone to endure too much stress, pain and misery so they aren't distraught when that person dies.

Also I wonder who is hurt more the person who dies because they see no other alternative and succeed at suicide, or the people left behind....keep in mind they aren't dead and still have the chance at happiness later on.

This, but the problem makes me think of a documentary on suicide. The producer was himself Dxed with a terminal condition. In the end, suicide would be preferable than waiting for natural death, but the country that allowed assisted suicide required that the person do the deed themselves. That means the guy would have to kill himself BEFORE things got so bad that he would want to kill himself.

So, "rational suicide" requires a conclusion that things will not get better (or the probability of quality of life is so low it is essentially zero). That's hard to do, but really, once you lose all hope, what reason do you have to sustain you?

Yes, without a doubt suicide is inherently irrational. I have been there and can only shudder at the control such a thought process has on the mind. It is pure and utter desperation where the mind simply wants to turn off. Imagine panicking as you fall down a dark well, while clawing on the slippery walls. The terror is so great that you cannot see the rope dangling by your side or realize that the well is only a few feet deep. Suicide it is not a solution since it does not solve the problem but simply negates the possibility a solution. Given time, moral support, and perhaps some medication the whole episode seems like a bad dream, which when you look back still has the capacity to make you shudder and say, " Was that really me?" Now as I walk on the street I recognize the eyes of a stranger. Eyes that look but do not see ,glazed over with unseen terror. but hold a spark that screams, "Help me, the darkness is blinding. Do not let me die so wretchedly."

There is no such thing as zero hope so long as there is a single soul willing to hold your hand.

If I can't take care of myself when I get old I will take my life,the idea of a nursing home is not my take on a quality life.I don't think this is irrational,it seems the best way out.

There are ways to die that are abominable. Medical science can prolong life, but we can't always improve its quality. For people like this, wanting to end it once they reach that final stage is understandable, and that the law says they can't have someone else do it for them (because they now are to crippled by disease to drink a cup of poison without assistance) just shows how cruel this "gray line" is.

Even imposing instructions to withhold feeding and hydration and give pain meds once you can't care for yourself anymore can be contradicted by an unwilling doctor or belligerent family member....making the patient suffer the very thing they wanted to avoid.

I fully intend to go out the same way too. If/when it gets to the point I can no longer afford to stay in my home (the taxman always wants money whether you earn any or not and will ultimately seize my possessions and house in lieu of tax) or my health deteriorates further to the point life is not worth living then I'll hang myself. Should be quick and relatively pain free using the long drop method and a proper 8 loop noose. I've already seen the very strong rope I'll need in a hardware shop. (Don't want the rope snapping!)

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that I'll bring my existence to an end when I want, not when my brain/body has degenerated to the point I'm in constant agony or losing my marbles. I have diabetes and that is gradually damaging all my body's systems; I also have trigeminal neuralgia which is classified as one of the most painful conditions known to mankind; also problems with spinal and peripheral nerve compression in my neck which is also painful plus the usual stuff associated with ageing such as arthritis and rheumatism. If/when my life become ongoing suffering every day then it will be time for me to bring it to an end. I see no reason to linger beyond that point.

Wait they go about euthenasia, via witholding food and water?......Isn't starvation and dehydration also pretty unpleasant and painful? I always though they just like over-dosed them in a way that sort of lets them drift off into their death, not sure I am keen on the starvation/dehydration method.

Hey Tallyman,

I hope you live a long time, and pass away peacefully in your sleep at an age near to 100.

Thank you for the sentiment. It would be nice to live that long; I'd like to live to see man land on Mars and establish the first base there. I'd also like to see what the technological singularity will bring (it could be very good or very bad for mankind). There are so many new scientific discoveries being made; it is fascinating reading about them and seeing the new technologies emerge. Lots of live for provided my health lasts.

It's a stupid game we play to reinforce our own dispositions by putting suicide into the realm of selfishness or bravery vs cowardice.

If you think taking your own life doesn't take bravery, then by all means prove it by taking your own life. If you don't think choosing to live when you're ready to kill yourself isn't an act of cowardice of death, then prove it by not failing a suicide attempt.

All such statements regarding selfishness, bravery or cowardice are nothing but self-serving, self-reinforcing statements.

^this

If I was in incurable pain I'd rather that single soul shot me in the face instead.