Page 1 of 1 [ 4 posts ] 

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,050
Location: New York City (Queens)

09 Dec 2020, 8:14 pm

Here, slam_thunderhide wrote:

slam_thunderhide wrote:
I’m not a Trump fanboy myself. I think he’s a fraud. I would have preferred him to beat Biden, since I view him as the lesser of two evils, but I don’t think the election result is going to be overturned. I think if there was fraud in the recent election (which seems quite likely), then there has probably also been fraud of varying degrees in other US elections. Personally, I have mainly joined this thread to see if the liberals here are capable of thinking objectively about all this. I shouldn’t have expected much. After all, here are some of the things liberals on this sub-forum (and in the wider society) actually do believe these days-

• Donald Trump, who created a diplomatic incident with Sweden to defend some black rapper guilty of assault, who has Jewish extended family, who has spent four years doing nothing while his own supporters were routinely attacked by antifa, yes Donald Trump is himself actually a fascist
• Russia hacked the 2016 election – yes, the point was made on another thread how ironic it is that people most likely to believe this are the ones least likely to believe in election fraud in 2020, but I’ll make it again. Remarkably, liberals reverse the argument, while failing to even see that firstly, the argument can go both ways, and secondly, that it’s objectively easier for actual US citizens in America to commit election fraud in a US election than for a foreign country on the other side of the planet to “hack” it (whatever the hell that even means)
• The rebels the US is supporting in Syria are “moderates”
• The weeks-long riots that broke out throughout the US following George Floyd’s death – with all the murders, assaults and arson - were “peaceful protests”
• Antifa don’t really exist
• The George Floyd “protests” had nothing to do with any spike in covid cases, whereas anti-lockdown protests did, and anyway, “racism” is the real public health emergency
• John McCain was a real American hero (the complete opposite of how liberals felt about him about 15 years ago, lol)
• Jussie Smollett really was the victim of a racist attack, and so was Bubba Wallace – yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if several liberals on here still believe this, lol
Removed by moderator
• A White schoolkid standing still saying nothing while a Native American man chants in his face is a terrible attack and definitely worthy of making the national news headlines.
• Closing the borders in the middle of a global pandemic is unforgiveable racist. Also, masks don’t help ordinary people from catching and spreading an airborne respiratory disease because only medical professionals know how to put them on properly – or at least that was the case when masks were in short supply, and magically this all changed when the supply of masks increased, lol.
• President Assad, in the middle of a war he was winning, did the one thing most likely to provoke direct US intervention – yes, he “gassed his own people”
• And the saddest liberal delusion of all: thinking that simply figuring out that you’re “supposed” to believe this sort of tripe makes you smarter and morally superior to those bad and ignorant people who haven’t received the memo.

Honestly, the list seems to keep growing and growing as time goes by, and as far as I’m concerned is one of the reason why dialogue is becoming increasingly impossible, and why this sub-forum has got so much worse.

I'm starting this separate thread for replies to the above, because it raises a whole big bunch of issues, discussion of which would be off-topic in the original thread.

I'll post my own reply to a few of the above issues later.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,943
Location:      

09 Dec 2020, 8:59 pm

I, for one, had already seen the post you quoted as a third-rate "Yeah, but Liberals..." diversionary tactic -- sort of an ad hominem tu quoque attack -- against those who do not worship at the altar of Trump.

Hence, easily dismissed and ignored.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


BraveMurderDay
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: St. Paul

10 Dec 2020, 12:20 am

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Donald Trump, who created a diplomatic incident with Sweden to defend some black rapper guilty of assault, who has Jewish extended family, who has spent four years doing nothing while his own supporters were routinely attacked by antifa, yes Donald Trump is himself actually a fascist


And Hitler cared about puppy dogs. No, I don't think Trump is potential Hitler. Fascist seems like one of the most nebulous words in the modern discourse, in any event. I would refer to him as other things.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Russia hacked the 2016 election – yes, the point was made on another thread how ironic it is that people most likely to believe this are the ones least likely to believe in election fraud in 2020, but I’ll make it again. Remarkably, liberals reverse the argument, while failing to even see that firstly, the argument can go both ways, and secondly, that it’s objectively easier for actual US citizens in America to commit election fraud in a US election than for a foreign country on the other side of the planet to “hack” it (whatever the hell that even means


This is fringe stuff on the liberal side. If you get into less serious Russian interference, that has an acceptance rate more comparable to the latter.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
The rebels the US is supporting in Syria are “moderates”


Foreign policy barely came up in the presidential debates, so who cares, ha ha.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
The weeks-long riots that broke out throughout the US following George Floyd’s death – with all the murders, assaults and arson - were “peaceful protests”


The most deprived communities get hit hardest by some of this. The responses by Lightfoot and some other mayors in some regards, i.e. wanting to believe they didn't need federal reinforcements made me lose a lot of confidence in their basic judgment. I also noticed some mainstream Democrats were willing to unconditionally place blame upon Trump for any episode of violence, which seemed like a liability, not that I believe Trump was really helping matters much.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Antifa don’t really exist


Yeah, there's some seductive cheap linguistic deception to this I don't like. They are a PITA for local law enforcement to deal with when their participants break laws since they aren't that "organized". There really shouldn't be reluctance on the part of someone like Biden to at least point out some behaviors hostile to freedom of the press, freedom of association - don't go around spraying weird fluids on journalists, demonstrators, and cops. I suspect many with Antifa were kind of hoping for Trump to be re-elected, not unlike how some in the media simultaneously hate Trump and enjoy the ratings grab.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
The George Floyd “protests” had nothing to do with any spike in covid cases, whereas anti-lockdown protests did, and anyway, “racism” is the real public health emergency


I hope there aren't too many on this forum who have said that!

slam_thunderhide wrote:
John McCain was a real American hero (the complete opposite of how liberals felt about him about 15 years ago, lol)


This kind of thing is mundane. As long as the shift is reasonably moderate and tempered, I'd take that over leftist Caitlin Johnstone's reaction to McCain passing on.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Jussie Smollett really was the victim of a racist attack, and so was Bubba Wallace – yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if several liberals on here still believe this, lol


Smollett's story crumbled in the eyes of most of the public from the beginning. There really weren't many who fell for it as of a few days after it went public. It should bother more people though when police resources in a city like Chicago are squandered. And I don't know that the media is any less incentivized since to rapidly sensationalize stories like this unfortunately.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
A man becomes a woman when he cuts his genitals off


I'm seeing a massive schism having to do with this topic on another message board at the moment, both sides are on the left. I don't think some of the internecine disagreement is going away, just a question of how prominently it will feature.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
A White schoolkid standing still saying nothing while a Native American man chants in his face is a terrible attack and definitely worthy of making the national news headlines.


This bedevils me more than anything. The old media should have vetted sources before running with it, but the real reason we remember this saga is how irresponsible social media users were in reacting to these teens. Human brains aren't adapting to the increased capacity we have to oftentimes wait for more facts to come out, and I don't see one side having moral high ground on this over the other.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Closing the borders in the middle of a global pandemic is unforgiveable racist. Also, masks don’t help ordinary people from catching and spreading an airborne respiratory disease because only medical professionals know how to put them on properly – or at least that was the case when masks were in short supply, and magically this all changed when the supply of masks increased, lol.


The best leaders adapt, maintain humility, and communicate in good faith. I mean, a person could rake Dr. Fauci over the coals over a few things ad nauseum if that's what they want.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
President Assad, in the middle of a war he was winning, did the one thing most likely to provoke direct US intervention – yes, he “gassed his own people”


See Above.

slam_thunderhide wrote:
And the saddest liberal delusion of all: thinking that simply figuring out that you’re “supposed” to believe this sort of tripe makes you smarter and morally superior to those bad and ignorant people who haven’t received the memo.


Maybe, if liberals had their own Olympics they would compete in events like the Never Apologize for Anything Relay and the Always Wrong About Everything 500 where you get bonus points every time you scream someone who had a different opinion than you is racist. :)



Feyokien
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,303
Location: Somewhere

10 Dec 2020, 12:42 am

Creating a new thread to draw attention to another posters comments is something I'm not going to encourage in PPR. Please don't do it again. If you think a post is way offtopic in your thread, let a moderator know and we will take appropriate action.

I've removed the original post because its basically an open letter attack full of strawmans and divisive rhetoric while claiming 'neutrality'.

Locked.