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rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 6:33 am

I find this a pretty strange desire. A girlfriend to me is somebody I must listen to, agree with and share things with no matter what she says or wants. She might want to drag me to boring parties, want me to go to boring social happenings or spend my time with other boring stuff. So, why would any ND that wants to continue to pursue his/her special interests have a gf or bf? It's completely illogical. :-)

Some people, maybe mostly female NDs, have realized this and so no longer want a boyfriend. They don't want to have sex on demand, don't want to lose their independence or do boring stuff all day.

Actually, I don't want a girlfriend either. I want a soulmate, not a girl friend.

Some male NDs claim they miss having a girlfriend as teenagers, and that this can explain why they feel so desperate and miserable. It's more likely a soul mate they miss, and not a girl friend. Getting a soul mate is not bound to age and can happen at 15 or 50, it doesn't matter and it will be just as good regardless of age. Maybe it even gets better with age as then you can reflect on all those poor dating experiences much better.



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21 Feb 2021, 9:05 am

Does girlfriend and soul mate have to be mutually exclusive? I guess when I was looking for someone to date I was actually looking for a soul mate.


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Mona Pereth
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21 Feb 2021, 9:27 am

rdos wrote:
Actually, I don't want a girlfriend either. I want a soulmate, not a girl friend.

I don't understand. Wouldn't a "soulmate" (assuming one exists) also be a girlfriend (if you're a heterosexual male)?


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21 Feb 2021, 9:34 am

rdos wrote:
A girlfriend to me is somebody I must listen to, agree with and share things with no matter what she says or wants. She might want to drag me to boring parties, want me to go to boring social happenings or spend my time with other boring stuff. So, why would any ND that wants to continue to pursue his/her special interests have a gf or bf? It's completely illogical. :-)


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21 Feb 2021, 9:43 am

rdos wrote:
I find this a pretty strange desire. A girlfriend to me is somebody I must listen to, agree with and share things with no matter what she says or wants. She might want to drag me to boring parties, want me to go to boring social happenings or spend my time with other boring stuff. So, why would any ND that wants to continue to pursue his/her special interests have a gf or bf? It's completely illogical. :-)

Some people, maybe mostly female NDs, have realized this and so no longer want a boyfriend. They don't want to have sex on demand, don't want to lose their independence or do boring stuff all day.

Actually, I don't want a girlfriend either. I want a soulmate, not a girl friend.

Some male NDs claim they miss having a girlfriend as teenagers, and that this can explain why they feel so desperate and miserable. It's more likely a soul mate they miss, and not a girl friend. Getting a soul mate is not bound to age and can happen at 15 or 50, it doesn't matter and it will be just as good regardless of age. Maybe it even gets better with age as then you can reflect on all those poor dating experiences much better.


I wouldn't date anyone who wanted to drag me to parties or social happenings, or someone who wanted sex on demand, or someone who caused me to lose my independence. No one should. That's why it's important to take time finding a partner with the same level of social interest, who treats you like a human being and respects you.

They're out there.

A soulmate can be a best friend and / or a partner. I have both.


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rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 10:49 am

OutsideView wrote:
Does girlfriend and soul mate have to be mutually exclusive? I guess when I was looking for someone to date I was actually looking for a soul mate.


They would typically be mutually exclusive. At least with the definition I provided at the start of the post where I explained what a gf/bf is for most NTs, and how it works in reality.

Also, it's pretty illogical to use dating to try to find a soul mate. Dating is for finding a gf/bf, and so you shouldn't expect to find a soul mate that way.



rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 10:57 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I wouldn't date anyone who wanted to drag me to parties or social happenings, or someone who wanted sex on demand, or someone who caused me to lose my independence. No one should. That's why it's important to take time finding a partner with the same level of social interest, who treats you like a human being and respects you.


So you don't want a boyfriend in the typical sense then? :-)

IsabellaLinton wrote:
They're out there.

A soulmate can be a best friend and / or a partner. I have both.


I used to think that "friendship first" was a poor way of getting into a relationship. However, if you are clear about your desire for finding a soulmate and that you are not looking for a typical NT-style friendship, then it might not be so bad. After all, it does provide the setup that typically leads to a strong bond, and ending up as soul mates.



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21 Feb 2021, 11:14 am

rdos wrote:
They would typically be mutually exclusive. At least with the definition I provided at the start of the post where I explained what a gf/bf is for most NTs, and how it works in reality.

Also, it's pretty illogical to use dating to try to find a soul mate. Dating is for finding a gf/bf, and so you shouldn't expect to find a soul mate that way.

So you're wondering why anyone would want to spend time with someone who forced them to do boring things? I can't understand that either! If I had the same definition of bf/gf as you I'd never have wanted one either. For me a bf/gf would be someone I'm getting to know to see if I like them enough to spend the rest of my life with them. Some woman once told me I had to find a boyfriend no matter who I ended up with. She just couldn't understand how I'd rather be single than with someone I didn't like!


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Mona Pereth
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21 Feb 2021, 11:16 am

rdos wrote:
I used to think that "friendship first" was a poor way of getting into a relationship. However, if you are clear about your desire for finding a soulmate and that you are not looking for a typical NT-style friendship, then it might not be so bad. After all, it does provide the setup that typically leads to a strong bond, and ending up as soul mates.

What do you mean by a "typical NT-style friendship," and how is it different from the kind of friendship that would enable ND people to find/become soulmates?

And what are your general recommendations for seeking a potential soulmate?


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rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 11:33 am

OutsideView wrote:
So you're wondering why anyone would want to spend time with someone who forced them to do boring things? I can't understand that either! If I had the same definition of bf/gf as you I'd never have wanted one either. For me a bf/gf would be someone I'm getting to know to see if I like them enough to spend the rest of my life with them. Some woman once told me I had to find a boyfriend no matter who I ended up with. She just couldn't understand how I'd rather be single than with someone I didn't like!


Yes, the idea that "you must have a gf/bf" is pretty prevalent in society, and combined with dating as a method to find one, it more or less leads up to how I defined the gf/bf concept.

Dating aims at finding somebody that you find it worthwhile to give up your freedom for. The "exclusive talk", which NTs use to define themselves as being together in a relationship basically means that they promise each other to be loyal no matter what. Part of being loyal to your partner is to accept being dragged to parties or social gatherings, doing other boring stuff and agreeing to sex even when you really don't feel like it.

To be honest, if a girl declared that she would give everything up for me I'd get really worried and get as far away from her as possible.



rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 11:47 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
What do you mean by a "typical NT-style friendship," and how is it different from the kind of friendship that would enable ND people to find/become soulmates?

And what are your general recommendations for seeking a potential soulmate?


That's tricky. I think the most important issue is that you first must identify that your potential soulmate is ND and not NT and actually interested in you in some way.

Most NTs would put friendship and potential partner in different categories, and so even if they like you as a friend they might already have decided that they don't want you as a partner. Therefore, you quite likely will be wasting your time if you use this approach on NTs.

NDs have no real friendship concept, and so they will not evaluate you as potential friend or partner. If they like you as a friend they quite likely have not discarded you as a partner or soul mate. At least not if they allow you to get real close to them and to form a strong bond with you.



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21 Feb 2021, 12:00 pm

Being loyal is worth it for me because, in turn, I have someone who is loyal to me. There does definitely have to be compromise but if you can find someone with similar interests you can enjoy doing things together instead of forcing each other to do boring things. I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who was pressuring me for sex when I didn't want it though.

rdos wrote:
NDs have no real friendship concept, and so they will not evaluate you as potential friend or partner. If they like you as a friend they quite likely have not discarded you as a partner or soul mate. At least not if they allow you to get real close to them and to form a strong bond with you.


Perhaps that's why I don't consider dating a soul mate to be impossible. I don't separate people out into friend / potential date categories.


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rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 12:17 pm

OutsideView wrote:
Being loyal is worth it for me because, in turn, I have someone who is loyal to me. There does definitely have to be compromise but if you can find someone with similar interests you can enjoy doing things together instead of forcing each other to do boring things. I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who was pressuring me for sex when I didn't want it though.


Yes, but it is this kind of loyality that predators use, and that NDs find hard to resist.

The "good" loyality comes automatically for NDs as they form strong bonds. It doesn't need to be enforced by a "contract" (a promise to be exclusive or a marriage), it comes all by itself. However, since it comes all ny itself, NDs also need to be careful about who they bond with.

I'm not sure that aiming at finding similar interests is such a good idea for NDs. First, we typically cannot afford to discard people that might be compatible & interested in us based on differences in interests. This doesn't happen very often, and so we need to use these occassions the best we can. Second, some of us have very unusual interests, and some of these are mostly interests we only share with our own gender, and thus this would limit potential partners too much. Third, interests change, and if you initially had similar interest you eventually might end up with rather different interest. Forth, if you don't have similar interest to start with you will need to compromise right from the start and so can see how this works before it gets too serious.

OutsideView wrote:
rdos wrote:
NDs have no real friendship concept, and so they will not evaluate you as potential friend or partner. If they like you as a friend they quite likely have not discarded you as a partner or soul mate. At least not if they allow you to get real close to them and to form a strong bond with you.


Perhaps that's why I don't consider dating a soul mate to be impossible. I don't separate people out into friend / potential date categories.


Quite likely so. :-)



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21 Feb 2021, 12:40 pm

I see autism as a spectrum.

I'm HFA or 'maybe autistic' NT. Although I have diagnosis, it doesn't define everything about me or make me vastly different to intelligent, introverted NTs.

I'm vastly different to some ND people. Because ND doesn't = autistic. It = 'thinks differently to the majority'. I doubt a healthy autistic person is the same thing as a psychopath, but they're both ND.
*
Personally I don't want a soul mate or a girlfriend. I want a muse maybe. Or maybe I'm happy alone.

I think the healthy reason to want a gf/bf is for companionship. A bonus.

I think the unhealthy reason to want a gf/bf is to complete you as a person.

Most NTs in my life form friendships then they develop into relationships. That's healthy cos you get to know the person's inner circle before dating them, know what people think of them (so what if they're 'quirky' - but if someone's saying 'they're dangerous' or 'watch yourself with them' be on the look out for that!), know if they're safe etc.
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I'd rather date an NT person who's healthy than date an ND person who's a sociopath and who's allistic anyway.
*
It's hard to generalise about the entire world on this and that's why the world wide web is a difficult place to have this conversation on. What might be normal in some places (eg speed dating, dating friends of family, dating friends, arranged marriages etc) is seen as completely weird and bizarre in others.


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OutsideView
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21 Feb 2021, 12:51 pm

rdos wrote:
I'm not sure that aiming at finding similar interests is such a good idea for NDs. First, we typically cannot afford to discard people that might be compatible & interested in us based on differences in interests. This doesn't happen very often, and so we need to use these occassions the best we can. Second, some of us have very unusual interests, and some of these are mostly interests we only share with our own gender, and thus this would limit potential partners too much. Third, interests change, and if you initially had similar interest you eventually might end up with rather different interest. Forth, if you don't have similar interest to start with you will need to compromise right from the start and so can see how this works before it gets too serious.

What's your definition of a soul mate? What do you get out of having one? What do you do with them? Don't you have to do boring things in order to spend time with them if you don't have similar interests? Not trying to be picky, just having trouble understanding :)

For me dating is spending time with someone to get to know them (and agreeing not to do anything romantic or sexual with anyone else at the same time). If we have different interests that lead to us both having to do boring things together then the relationship probably wouldn't be worth being in anyway unless we got along so well that doing the boring things became enjoyable because we were doing them together.


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rdos
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21 Feb 2021, 12:54 pm

KT67 wrote:
I see autism as a spectrum.

I'm HFA or 'maybe autistic' NT. Although I have diagnosis, it doesn't define everything about me or make me vastly different to intelligent, introverted NTs.

I'm vastly different to some ND people. Because ND doesn't = autistic. It = 'thinks differently to the majority'. I doubt a healthy autistic person is the same thing as a psychopath, but they're both ND.
*
Personally I don't want a soul mate or a girlfriend. I want a muse maybe. Or maybe I'm happy alone.

I think the healthy reason to want a gf/bf is for companionship. A bonus.

I think the unhealthy reason to want a gf/bf is to complete you as a person.

Most NTs in my life form friendships then they develop into relationships. That's healthy cos you get to know the person's inner circle before dating them, know what people think of them (so what if they're 'quirky' - but if someone's saying 'they're dangerous' or 'watch yourself with them' be on the look out for that!), know if they're safe etc.
*
I'd rather date an NT person who's healthy than date an ND person who's a sociopath and who's allistic anyway.
*
It's hard to generalise about the entire world on this and that's why the world wide web is a difficult place to have this conversation on. What might be normal in some places (eg speed dating, dating friends of family, dating friends, arranged marriages etc) is seen as completely weird and bizarre in others.


Too me, ND is somebody that score high on Aspie Quiz. A sociopath might be "neurodivergent", but certainly not ND. Sure, ND traits are only losely connected, but they still make sense as a "phenotype" even if they are on a spectrum today.

An introvert NT is a bit of a contradiction. If you are shy or introvert you are not NT in that sense (even if you might be in other ways).

Also, ND in the "dating" and relationship area mostly relates to if somebody have the ND relationship preferences (enjoying love at a distance, getting strong infatuations and alike) or the NT relationship preferences (enjoying dating & using sex to bond).