Novel way to improve autism tolerance

Page 1 of 4 [ 51 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Griff
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,312

13 Aug 2007, 2:40 pm

Some of you are going to be screaming for my blood over this, and I'm almost hesitant to propose it. However, it could be revolutionary in getting the public to accept autists and Aspergians. Read no further if you are obsessed over having a sense of dignity.

Deep breath, now. Autists and Aspies may have a tendency to make untoward comments about another person's appearance, and it sometimes results in persecution and social marginalization. However, this expresses a certain innocence as well, and this innocence may act as a trump card in defeating intolerance. It could also serve to improve socialization. I think that school children may be able to understand their auistic classmates better by being told to think of us as they would a younger child or a puppy. As undignified as it may be, it might result in more nurturing classmates playing a protective role for this child, and these more socially mobile protectors might have success in both shielding young autists from abuse and enhancing their social integration. The reason that I fear some of you rejecting this is that some of you might take a great deal of offense to being treated as a child or an animal, and I think that the hardest audience to persuade in adopting this method would be higher functioning autists who may already have hurt feelings over some people's natural propensity for taking this nurturing attitude. Using this formula, autists would take a submissive, child-to-elder role with their peers, and they would receive careful instruction and training in areas in which we, as autists and Aspergians, are naturally deficient. Umm...it might also improve our chances of getting laid, which some of us seriously, seriously need. The reason this would work is that prolactin-induced cuddling might have the effect of developing into romantic relationships.

I hope that this idea will bring about a warm reception with at least some of you. Please don't be offended. I'm trying to help.



Last edited by Griff on 13 Aug 2007, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flagg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,399
Location: Western US

13 Aug 2007, 2:43 pm

No, I actually want to be treated like a human being.


_________________
How good music and bad reasons sound when one marches against an enemy!


Griff
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,312

13 Aug 2007, 2:47 pm

I understand your feelings, Flagg. Please try to understand mine. I really want to give some of these kids a better chance of being accepted, and some of them truly need protection in the cruel environment of an educational facility.



mmaestro
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 522
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

13 Aug 2007, 3:48 pm

Hmm, right idea, wrong implementation. The younger child or puppy thing is just.. yuck. No, thank you. I'd rather be an incompetent social outcast than a pet, and the suggestion also has IMO a high likelihood of making the autistic child looked down upon as somehow mentally incompetent or inferior. But, many schools already have mentoring programs, where older children help, for instance, those behind in reading skills catch up in one on one situations. It might be possible to set up a mentoring relationship, where a particularly empathetic or calm individual could be assigned to watch over the younger autistic or Asperger's child. They could help smooth over difficult interactions, look out for bullying, and try to provide help in those areas the child was finding difficult.

Quote:
Using this formula, autists would take a submissive, child-to-elder role with their peers, and they would receive careful instruction and training in areas in which we, as autists and Aspergians, are naturally deficient. Umm...it might also improve our chances of getting laid, which some of us seriously, seriously need.

Please, please tell me you're kidding (not about the seriously needing it part, just the bit about a child to elder relationship leading to sex, which... eew).


_________________
"You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd"
-Captain Sheridan, Babylon 5

Music of the Moment: Radiohead - In Rainbows


Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,597
Location: In the recesses of my mind

13 Aug 2007, 3:59 pm

i maybe could see merit in the theory within elementary schools...

i was a guest teacher in elementary schools and they had disabled students mixed in with the class...

i dont think it would necessarily hurt the lil kids to have this sort of modelling behavior...


but i dont think it should be implemented at older stages.... dunno where the cutoff should be


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


gwynfryn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 896
Location: France

13 Aug 2007, 3:59 pm

Griff wrote:
Some of you are going to be screaming for my blood over this, and I'm almost hesitant to propose it. However, it could be revolutionary in getting the public to accept autists and Aspergians. Read no further if you are obsessed over having a sense of dignity.

Deep breath, now. Autists and Aspies may have a tendency to make untoward comments about another person's appearance, and it sometimes results in persecution and social marginalization. However, this expresses a certain innocence as well, and this innocence may act as a trump card in defeating intolerance. It could also serve to improve socialization. I think that school children may be able to understand their auistic classmates better by being told to think of us as they would a younger child or a puppy. As undignified as it may be, it might result in more nurturing classmates playing a protective role for this child, and these more socially mobile protectors might have success in both shielding young autists from abuse and enhancing their social integration. The reason that I fear some of you rejecting this is that some of you might take a great deal of offense to being treated as a child or an animal, and I think that the hardest audience to persuade in adopting this method would be higher functioning autists who may already have hurt feelings over some people's natural propensity for taking this nurturing attitude. Using this formula, autists would take a submissive, child-to-elder role with their peers, and they would receive careful instruction and training in areas in which we, as autists and Aspergians, are naturally deficient. Umm...it might also improve our chances of getting laid, which some of us seriously, seriously need. The reason this would work is that prolactin-induced cuddling might have the effect of developing into romantic relationships.

I hope that this idea will bring about a warm reception with at least some of you. Please don't be offended. I'm trying to help.


How interesting; Flagg provides an e-mail address, but the other respondent, and the author of this garbage does not .

Nevertheless Flagg, your name seems artificial? Mine is as I was christened, and if it doesn't appear in my profile, you can reach me at gwynzkind@yaho.co.uk



Sylvius
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 97
Location: Canada

13 Aug 2007, 4:08 pm

Griff wrote:
I understand your feelings, Flagg. Please try to understand mine. I really want to give some of these kids a better chance of being accepted, and some of them truly need protection in the cruel environment of an educational facility.

It's the people who are cruel who's behaviour needs to be altered, not the autists.

Autists want to be treated reasonably, not like pets.



nobodyzdream
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,267
Location: St. Charles, MO-USA

13 Aug 2007, 4:27 pm

I think that tends to happen naturally at times with people. My bf-he sees me as an equal, but I think that is always underlying. I just don't get things the way he does, and he has to explain. It is hard to look at someone who is always asking questions and not see a childlike nature coming out in them, I imagine. But I also don't think implementing it in the school system so much will help. There are kids who hear their parents nag about people with all kinds of disabilities all of the time, and are angry at people who are different in any way just because that is how they have been taught in the home, which is more influential I think in a lot of ways than anything they can teach at school.

I think it just boils down to human tolerance. Some learn young how to be cruel to anyone who is different, and if we were to implement something that somehow got them to view us as needing extra help or anything from the other students, chances are that would come out even more negatively than it already is in some cases, because not only would they not like us already for being different, but it would be pointing us out as well. There are always some kids here and there that are very protective of anyone who is different, or they can relate because they have a family member who is and whatnot. It would be hard to attempt to force others to be so open-minded and non-judgmental if they don't see a reason why. Most people could care less how they effect another in the long run-it's cheap entertainment for them.


_________________
Sorry for the long post...

I'm my own guinea pig.


Griff
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,312

13 Aug 2007, 5:03 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
How interesting; Flagg provides an e-mail address, but the other respondent, and the author of this garbage does not .
I expected a little hostility. Yes, the idea is a bit radical, but I think that the potential for this system is illustrated clearly in female students who dedicate extensive time and energy to protecting the geeky, emotionally sensitive students. If it hadn't been for several young women risking themselves and their reputations to placate one testosterone-driven fool or another, I would have been seriously beaten during my school years, possibly even at the cost of my life. Looking back, I do remember a lot of them having tense conversations with some of the class jar-heads, and I think that what they were doing was talking them out of killing me outright. One a lot of occassions, they threatened to, and they seemed pretty serious.

If you'd like to get in touch with me by email, mine is griff.and.his.cat@gmail.com. I'd like to try to explain the logic of this to you. I understand that it's very radical.



mmaestro
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 522
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

13 Aug 2007, 5:11 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
How interesting; Flagg provides an e-mail address, but the other respondent, and the author of this garbage does not .

So providing an E-mail address is the criterion for determining if someone's a troll? Please, as if. I don't make mine public - I get enough spam as is, and I think the over 750 posts Flagg's made would perhaps indicate he's serious. Now I seriously question the good sense of this idea, but I do at least understand what he's trying to come up with. I just don't think that it would work in the format he suggests.


_________________
"You're never more alone than when you're alone in a crowd"
-Captain Sheridan, Babylon 5

Music of the Moment: Radiohead - In Rainbows


gwynfryn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 896
Location: France

13 Aug 2007, 5:19 pm

mmaestro wrote:
gwynfryn wrote:
How interesting; Flagg provides an e-mail address, but the other respondent, and the author of this garbage does not .

So providing an E-mail address is the criterion for determining if someone's a troll? Please, as if. I don't make mine public - I get enough spam as is, and I think the over 750 posts Flagg's made would perhaps indicate he's serious. Now I seriously question the good sense of this idea, but I do at least understand what he's trying to come up with. I just don't think that it would work in the format he suggests.


Flagg's a male? No matter: it's interesting how quickly you responded!



Griff
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,312

13 Aug 2007, 5:36 pm

mmaestro wrote:
Quote:
Using this formula, autists would take a submissive, child-to-elder role with their peers, and they would receive careful instruction and training in areas in which we, as autists and Aspergians, are naturally deficient. Umm...it might also improve our chances of getting laid, which some of us seriously, seriously need.

Please, please tell me you're kidding (not about the seriously needing it part, just the bit about a child to elder relationship leading to sex, which... eew).
Nope! Not one jot! The same exact hormones that make sure we reproduce also serve to make sure that we care and provide for our young! For example, African wild dogs and several other species nurture their young by feeding gluttonously at their kills and going home to regurgitate part of their meal for the pups. The trigger for this is serotonin, which rises immensely when we see our children, and outrageous levels of serotonin can lead to nausea and vomiting. The same thing happens when lovers look into one another's eyes: as stress hormones plummet, our eyes tend to dilate. Stress hormones are vasoconstrictors that protect our eyes from damage and our bodies from harm. This dilation causes more light to enter the eye, thus raising our levels of serotonin and other hormones that are tied to happiness and, in this case, romantic love. Serotonin is one of the main hormones at work when we fall in love with one another and when we tend to our children. Essentially, Aspergerians seem to go through something like an extended childhood, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It would allow for more development in some important survival skills. An Aspie's childhood NT mentor could very well become his or her adulthood lover. Since most Aspies are boys and their most likely mentors are young women, this sort of relational transformation is actually quite likely. It would work the same as a nurse and patient falling in love.

See? I wasn't just being naughty-minded.



2ukenkerl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,277

13 Aug 2007, 5:53 pm

Griff,

You are NUTS! It won't make it more likely that you will have sex, and neither party would likely be much into it anyway.

Many ALREADY think autistics are animals or immature.

Frankly, I think the smarter autistics, and AS people especially, would like more space and respect. YOUR idea presents less of both.



Griff
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,312

13 Aug 2007, 6:06 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Griff,

You are NUTS!
This is well-known, and I tend to advertise it widely. If you didn't think I was loopy until just now, you haven't been reading my posts.

Quote:
It won't make it more likely that you will have sex, and neither party would likely be much into it anyway.
Not so fast. Lovers, mature and otherwise, tend to engage in child-like behavior with one another, and it's well known that some women think of their men as babies.

Quote:
Many ALREADY think autistics are animals or immature.
1) If you want to be adventurous, it's feasible that autism and Asperger Syndrome could be considered a moderate speciation event. There are even noticable physiological differences in some cases. 2) It can be argued that Aspergians tend to go through a longer childhood than NTs. If so, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, humans are children long after less sophisticated animals have had their first litter, grown old and died.

Quote:
Frankly, I think the smarter autistics, and AS people especially, would like more space and respect. YOUR idea presents less of both.
Unfortunately, yes. If it's true that Aspies have a longer childhood, then parenting and education should be extended well beyond typical coming of age, and I suspect that it often does simply as a result of Aspies taking a while to learn how to fend for themselves. You have to admit, a lot of older Aspies can be very successful.



Izaak
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 981
Location: Perth, Western Australia

13 Aug 2007, 6:39 pm

Who is this supposedly aimed at? When is this behaviour to start?

And children are not little tyrants because they are naturally born a***holes. They are tyrants because they haven't learned how the world works and how to properly interact with things. It's why they aren't left alone with babies, kittens, puppies, or chocolate cake mix. The level of sophistication you are expecting from little humans that eat their own boogers and torture ants and bugs with magnifying glasses on a sunny day is astounding.

I would suggest much like mmaestro and nobodyzdream have intimated that there will always be a natural subset of "protectors." Those noble children who get their self-worth out of helping others rather than in looking cool or tough in front of others. They perhaps could be encouraged in that behaviour. But as a general rule, children are not adults and lack the sophistication neccassary to implement your ideas without constant supervision.



Stitch
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 62

13 Aug 2007, 7:05 pm

lol, that's one of the worst ideas ever, sorry :p