Interview with Trump biographer

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Donald Trump was caught off guard by the Hamas attacks on October 7, 2023, while heading to a campaign rally in Waterloo, Iowa. "It's a perfect setup to deliver a forceful defense of Israel and outdo Biden in backing Israel's military plans," writes veteran journalist Michael Wolff in his new book "All or Nothing: How Trump Recaptured America."

With Iowa's evangelical base strongly pro-Israel, Wolff notes that "a Trumpian show of fire and fury toward the Palestinians would surely play big." Yet instead of capitalizing on the moment, Trump issued a weak statement – surprising for someone who rarely misses an opportunity for bombastic rhetoric, especially when it serves his political interests.

One reason for Trump's lukewarm remarks, Wolff explains in an interview with Haaretz, is his general disinterest in foreign policy, particularly the Middle East. "He has always been bored by the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic," he says, adding that Trump reacts poorly to anything that diverts attention from him. "Even if it's one of the most seminal events in Israeli history, it doesn't make any difference – it takes attention away from him, and that leaves him feeling sour at best."

But there was another factor at play: revenge. Trump blamed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – whom he saw as responsible for the attacks – not for any policy failure, but for the ultimate betrayal: congratulating Joe Biden on his 2020 election victory. Netanyahu's efforts to mend ties at the time did little to ease Trump's resentment.

He obsesses about certain things," Wolff says. "The Netanyahu issue is something that he brings up constantly."

According to Wolff, Trump believes the events of October 7 wouldn't have happened if he were president – not because of any specific action he would have taken, but simply because the attacks would have been "against him," and no one would dare challenge him.

In Trump's view, he lost the presidency because Netanyahu congratulated Biden. "If Netanyahu had not congratulated him, Donald Trump would still be the president, in his mind," Wolff explains. "Of course, that is ridiculous on many levels. But in the Donald Trump reality, that's what he thinks."

In his book, Wolff writes that Trump believes that during his first term, "he had done more – not just in his defense of Israel, but in helping Netanyahu stay in office and out of jail – than any other American president ever would." Yet that same Netanyahu, Wolff writes, "contributed a major voice to the international consensus that Biden, rather than Trump, had won the election."

Wolff says that in Trump's view, October 7 was ultimately a consequence of Biden's presidency – one that Netanyahu had helped legitimize. In the book, Wolff sums up the conclusion that Trump formed the day of the attacks: "It was Netanyahu's fault!"

Since then, it appears that Trump's anger at the Israeli prime minister has dissipated somewhat.

"Netanyahu has come to the White House, kissed the feet, done whatever you have to do – and that makes up for everything," Wolff says. "As soon as you show the proper level of devotion, all is forgiven."

Many in Israel believe Trump is a true friend. Do you think he genuinely cares about Israel?
"No, no, no, no! Of course not. He doesn't care about Israel. He doesn't care about anything but himself. Certainly, he doesn't care about Israel. I mean, he cares about being seen as Israel's greatest friend, but he doesn't care about Israel."

The question of Trump's attitude toward Israel is closely tied to his stance on Jews. In 2022, The Washington Post reviewed his history of antisemitic remarks, noting that he repeatedly claimed Jews who vote for Democrats are disloyal – or worse, that they hate Israel.

Many saw this as echoing the antisemitic trope of Jewish dual loyalty. One of Trump's campaign ads at the time reinforced this perception, featuring three prominent Jewish figures – billionaire George Soros, then-Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen, and Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein – while a narrator warned of a global power structure robbing the working class.

Realizing the damage of being labeled antisemitic, Trump turned to his Jewish son-in-law, Jared Kushner, hoping he and Ivanka Trump would issue a public statement to reassure Jewish supporters and erase past controversies.

But Kushner resisted. "Kushner kept dodging on the formal endorsement of his father-in-law," Wolff writes in the book. Even when Trump's inner circle pushed for a watered-down statement simply affirming that Trump was not antisemitic, Kushner refused. "No, Ivanka and I aren't going to do that," Wolff quotes his frustrated response. "We're not going to put our names on something and get in the middle of things. That's just not what we're going to do this time."

When asked if Kushner believes Trump is antisemitic, Wolff says he doesn't know why Kushner refused to vouch for him but is certain it happened, as multiple sources confirmed. He suspects Kushner and Ivanka simply felt it was safer to keep their distance.

As for his own view, Wolff describes Trump as "antisemitic in that old-fashioned way, which is not to excuse it in any way. He believes Jews are different from him," though Trump would insist they have "good qualities" and that many of his best friends are Jewish. "But does he think a Jewish person is fundamentally different from someone like him? Yes. For better or worse," Wolff says.

Kushner and Ivanka Trump managed to maintain a relatively clean image despite their close association with Trump during his first term. One of Kushner's key achievements, Wolff notes, was the Abraham Accords. "Trump has absolutely no interest in foreign policy or the Middle East," Wolff says. "Israeli domestic politics requires deep understanding and attention to detail, and for Trump, it's one big bore. In his mind, it's a Jewish problem – Kushner is Jewish, so he should handle it. And that's what Kushner did."

Seven years ago, Wolff published the book that made him a household name in the U.S. and beyond: "Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House." A political bestseller, it provided an insider's view of Trump's first campaign and the early days of his presidency.

The book became an instant sensation, followed by two more on Trump – one focused on his legal troubles, the other on his final months in office. "All or Nothing," the fourth in the series, was published in late February and has received widespread coverage. This interview is Wolff's first with an Israeli media outlet since its release.

After a decade of unflattering coverage, how does he still manage to gain unprecedented access to Trump's inner circle?

"Many of the people around Trump live in a dual world," Wolff explains. "They exist within 'Trump world,' but at the same time, they're normal people – they have families, they're not rich – and they see that this is, you know, a really extraordinary place, if not a 'crazy town,' as they often call it. They need an outlet to express their clear-eyed view."

Trump reacted angrily to the book, dismissing it as "a total FAKE JOB" in a post on his social media platform, Truth Social. He later threatened legal action against anyone publishing information about him based on anonymous sources.

Wolff's book paints a rather uninspiring picture of the relationship between Dr. Miriam Adelson, the widow of casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, and Trump.

Sheldon Adelson was Trump's biggest donor in the previous two elections – reportedly contributing over $400 million to his campaign. Miriam Adelson donated astronomical sums to Trump, that did not earn her a place in the president's heart.

"She is so boring," Wolff quotes Trump as saying, when one of his advisers urged him to meet with her to secure another donation. "She just goes on and on. I can't do another. She isn't going to give us anything."

Wolff himself, who admits he did not speak with Miriam Adelson personally, says that Trump's associates describe her as "not as unpleasant as her husband, but she made up for that by being unrelievedly dull."

When Wolff tries to explain the current dynamic between them, especially given reports of Adelson's significant influence on Trump regarding the hostage deal negotiations, he clarifies that no one really gets to talk much around Trump – certainly not "talk and talk."

Trump felt that Adelson had crossed the line; she believed that her donations – according to Wolff, totaling about $180 million – entitled her to voice her opinion. The result, Wolff says, was that Trump "had to sit there and listen to her talk, and it irritated him beyond measure."

The clearest example of a billionaire who successfully bought his way into Trump's inner circle is, of course, Elon Musk, who contributed about a quarter of a billion dollars to Trump's campaign and was rewarded with a significant role in the White House after Trump's re-election.

Wolff writes in his book that Musk conditioned his support on Trump selecting Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as his running mate. This choice was made against the advice of most of Trump's advisers, who preferred Senator Marco Rubio, now the U.S. secretary of state, while Trump himself had initially leaned toward choosing a female running mate.

Reading about Musk's considerable influence on such a major decision – Trump's choice of vice president – it's hard to dismiss claims that Musk essentially controls Trump even now.

Musk's money was a major draw for Trump, Wolff notes. When his advisers urged him to attend fundraising events, Trump dismissed the need, saying, "I don't have to do this because the Crypto Guy will give me everything I want," according to Wolff. Musk followed through, pouring significant amounts into the campaign. "And to this day, it has a big impact on Trump," Wolff says.

Still, there is no real partnership with Trump, Wolff says. "There's no parity with Trump. There's not even much of a discussion with Trump." Musk serves Trump's interests for now, but as Wolff says, "Elon can do all these things. And if they go wrong, it will be Elon who is blamed, instead of Trump."

Moreover, history suggests Musk's influence won't last. "Of all the people who have surrounded Trump in the past 10 years of his political career, no one has come out alive," Wolff says. "One hundred percent of them have been humiliated, disgraced, fired, or indicted. It all ends in tears for everyone." Wolff sees Musk's belief that he will be the exception as pure hubris.

You often stress that Trump finds foreign policy dull, has no real interest in politics, and lacks any ideology beyond himself. Do you understand what drives him as president? Why he chose to run again after already achieving power and status, as you wrote?
"His motivation, I think, is to be Donald Trump. To remain Donald Trump, he has to be running for president or be president. Otherwise, he risks someone else taking control of the Republican Party. So I think he had no choice."

When Wolff first interviewed Trump after he announced his 2016 campaign, he asked him why he was running. "I said to him, 'Why are you doing this?' And he said, 'To be the most famous man in the world.'"

And what does that mean for another four years? Are you worried that he will refuse to step down after two terms in the White House?
"Am I concerned about 2028? Yeah, I think everybody is concerned," Wolff says. "I don't know how you could be anything but concerned."

That said, with Trump, it's always about him. "That's ultimately incredibly superficial," Wolff says. "He generates headlines every day, but the headlines are about him. They're not about principally affecting change – they're about drawing attention to him."

His approach is to dominate the news cycle by constantly outdoing himself. "By ramping up the headlines – every day a new headline, every day doing something more preposterous than the day before – eventually, this collapses in on itself. You can't alienate everybody, which he seems to be on a path to do, and expect there not to be consequences."

After ten years of covering Trump, is there anything positive you can say about him?
"Trump can be charming, entertaining, and sometimes even funny. In his own way, he is kind of a genius – I mean, a political genius. He has certainly rewritten the rules of politics, of what a politician is. You could say that for better or worse – right now, it seems for worse."