The Pro Palestinian/Anti Zionist movement post ceasefire
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
A lot will depend if the ceasefire holds, far from a sure thing. For this post I am going to make the assumption that after initial hiccups there will be a prolonged period of relative calm.
Case for a substantial reduction in activism
Gaza will eventually drop out of the news. Other priorities will take precedent. Many if not most people can be activists for only so long before they grow tired, bored, or frustrated. A very recent example is Black Lives Matter activism moving to Pro Palestinian activism.
Case for a continuation of high level of activism
The goal of the elimination of a Jewish state has not been met. It is understood that if this goal is to be met American public opinion has force their government to cut off Israel.
BLM targeted systematic racism and privilege. Anti Zionism is targeting perceived genocide which is a whole other level of evil. That is one reason activists pivoted from Black Lives Matter and it will be the reason when other issues come up that need attention they won’t pivot from pro Palestinian/Anti Zionist activism. That genocide will arguably not be ongoing the very presence of Israel will be a reminder they are getting away with it.
And there is the antisemitism factor
ASPartOfMe’s guess
While the levels will overall go down for the foreseeable future it will remain considerably uncomfortable for zionists.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
In my opinion those supposedly responsible for telling the "Zionist story" to the world are doing a piss-poor job. For one thing, they focus on the Zionist Right of Return which does more harm than good. Instead they need to promote a concise understanding of the history of the region that explains how the State of Israel came to be, how it established its claim to sovereignty, and why it's entitled to defend that claim like any other sovereign state.
Nobody is going to listen to an Israeli talking about how his ancestors were deported by the Romans 2000 years ago anymore than anyone not American cares about Washington DC being burned in 1814 (except Canadians who celebrate that event).
My guess is the world outside Israel and US has lost patience with the occupation and will push for a "fair" two state solution based on 1948 or 1967 borders. I doubt there will be any peace until Palestine is a democratic sovereign state. In the begginning it probably will have to be backed up by an international military force.
_________________
English is not my first language.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
Netanyahu has never an English language spokesperson.
But it goes beyond that. No PR campaign can undo images on peoples phones.
I would not be so sure about the US part going forward. While polling has always shown the vast majority of the American public backs Israel that has been eroding. The latest poll showed the American public split 50-50. It is one poll and might be an outlier but it jibes with other indications I am seeing that suggest that the Israels decision to withhold food from Gaza last spring was a turning point.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
A "two state solution" only makes sense as a stepping stone to a unified post-Zionist Palestine. Of course there was never a sovereign Palestine — the concept only really came into existence after the founding of Israel.
I would expect the international diplomatic community understands this, but for political reasons feels obliged to give lip service to the 2SS. Although the European élite come from a tradition in which animosity towards Jews is a matter of principle. Which probably explains how the UN, when first founded, gave lip service to the establishment of a Jewish state but at the same time established the UNWRA to ensure that Israelis would never live in peace.
Unfortunately for Zionists, a big part of "how the State of Israel came to be" was by massive expulsion of Palestinians. That basic fact cannot be erased by griping about UNWRA.
We now live in a world where settler-colonialism is no longer deemed to be acceptable. Before World War II, colonialism, including settler-colonialism, especially by European powers, was assumed to be part of the natural order of things. But then, in the 1950's and 1960's, when a lot of former European colonies gained their independence all at around the same time, colonialism, and especially settler-colonialism ceased, to be considered acceptable behavior.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
We now live in a world where settler-colonialism is no longer deemed to be acceptable. Before World War II, colonialism, including settler-colonialism, especially by European powers, was assumed to be part of the natural order of things. But then, in the 1950's and 1960's, when a lot of former European colonies gained their independence all at around the same time, colonialism, and especially settler-colonialism ceased, to be considered acceptable behavior.
Your response is predicated on the characterization of Zionism as "settler colonialism" being a foregone conclusion. I won't try to debate this. I decided to allow Google's AI to provide a list of arguments. I think some are stronger than others but I will assume these are the most relevant the AI can find. Please note these are not my personal arguments, I don't wish to try to disprove your assertion on my own:
Arguments against the settler-colonialist label
Historical indigenous connection: Proponents argue that Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel, with a continuous connection spanning centuries, making the movement a repatriation of a native people rather than a foreign colonial one.
Absence of a metropole: Unlike typical colonial ventures, Zionism did not have a European "mother country" that directed the project to benefit its own economy. Instead, European Jews were often escaping persecution and seeking a homeland, not a tool of a foreign power.
Immigration driven by persecution: The wave of Jewish immigration was largely a reaction to antisemitism and violence in Europe and elsewhere, not a manifestation of a colonial power seeking to exploit resources.
Self-determination, not conquest: Zionism is seen as an act of self-determination for the Jewish people, a national liberation movement. The goal was not to subjugate the existing population, but to establish a sovereign state for Jews.
Legal land purchases: While acknowledging disputes, some argue that early settlements often involved legal land purchases from the existing population, a method different from the force typically used in settler-colonialism.
Israeli democracy: The modern state of Israel is a democracy with international legitimacy, which distinguishes it from many historical European settler-colonial states that did not extend equal rights to all residents.
Part of the Middle East: A large portion of Israel's population originates from Middle Eastern and North African countries, disproving the idea that the population is purely a foreign, European settler one.
I am just saying there are arguments both for and against. Nobody should feel compelled to accept the claim that Zionism is a form of Settler-Colonialism.
Here's a discussion on r/IsraelPalestine. I am not going to copy and paste it here, nor have I read the entire thing, but I think it addresses both pro and con arguments:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1ey4ajx/issues_with_zionism_as_settlercolonialism/
As for the whole "mass expulsion of Palestinians" thing, consider that the State of Israel was declared in 1948 (I think) and the consequence of that declaration was attacks from all directions from neighboring states intent on destroying the Jewish State. The State of Israel at that time only claimed sovereignty over the territory granted by the Partition. Of course, you could argue that the Partition came about because those in a position to make that happen were in the pockets of Jewish bankers, be that as it may, nevertheless Israel did find itself in a war for its existence. I like to say that Israel won a war it wasn't supposed to win, which shocked the Western world. By various means, either coercion or choice, 100s of thousands of inhabitants were displaced. My problem with UNWRA, unlike other UN refugee agencies, was that UNWRA made no effort to resettle those people as would ordinarily be done with people displaced by war, instead they ensured that all those people would remain in refugee camps indefinitely or until the whole Zionist monstrosity could be dispensed with, so clearly the UNWRA was set up as a way to hasten the end of the State of Israel by applying unrelenting population pressure on that region. Given that there is never an ideal solution to any war, the Middle East would be a more peaceful place nowadays had efforts been made to resettle people displaced by the Naqba and of course not everyone was displaced anyway. Also, had the UN actually pursued some sort of peace initiative, there maybe could have been some return of displaced peoples, however a peace initiative would have been tantamount to a recognition of the sovereignty of the State of Israel which would have been a defeat for the anti-Zionist movement then just as nowadays.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
OP request:
Further discussion of the legitimacy of describing Israel as a settler colonial state should be the subject of a seperate thread. This thread is intended to be about the future not the past.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
The requested separate thread is here: Israel/Palestine and settler-colonialism.
As for what will happen in the future, that's hard to predict. Depends on many factors.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
