Board index › General Discussion › Getting to know each other

Post or currently mormon aspies?

Page 1 of 2 [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

09 May 2008, 2:46 am

Wondering who else here is of some sort of Mormon, formerly Mormon, or Mormon related background. . .

It seems in some ways a particularly hard place for an aspie, the Mormon church. . . wondering everyone else's views. .


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 3:27 am

Jainaday wrote:
Wondering who else here is of some sort of Mormon, formerly Mormon, or Mormon related background. . .

It seems in some ways a particularly hard place for an aspie, the Mormon church. . . wondering everyone else's views. .


It is. I'm the only non-Mormon in my family. I've been an atheist since about the age of 9, despite my parents' efforts.

I remember thinking, all religious groups are equally sure of their mutually incompatible beliefs, but none has any more reason to support their beliefs than any other, so maybe they're all wrong.

Not saying all Mormons are like this, but in general , I find Mormons to be even more dogmatic and easily offended than other religious groups.

It seems to me that religions with more restrictions on thought and social behavior (e.g., Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, fundamentalists) are the ones that make the most atheists.

It would be interesting to see a study done on the religious attitudes of ex-members from these and other religions.

I bet that ex-Mormons and ex-Jehovah's Witnesses have a higher percentage of atheists and agnostics than people who left other religious groups.



IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 3:30 am

Just curious, but why do you ask?



Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

09 May 2008, 3:57 am

Discussing things with people who have some background in common can be very useful.


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 4:44 am

Jainaday wrote:
Discussing things with people who have some background in common can be very useful.
aH, so what's your background?



Zonder
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,081
Location: Sitting on my sofa.

09 May 2008, 4:51 am

IpsoRandomo wrote:
It seems to me that religions with more restrictions on thought and social behavior (e.g., Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, fundamentalists) are the ones that make the most atheists.


I'm not Mormon but was raised fundamentalist Christian and I've seen a lot of ASD traits in fundamentalist churches. Maybe they produce more atheists and agnostics because there are more aspies in those churches who just don't know they are aspies and are rule bound, have black & white thinking, have difficult interpersonal relationships, are controlling of others . . . .

Z



IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 5:01 am

Zonder wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
It seems to me that religions with more restrictions on thought and social behavior (e.g., Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, fundamentalists) are the ones that make the most atheists.


I'm not Mormon but was raised fundamentalist Christian and I've seen a lot of ASD traits in fundamentalist churches. Maybe they produce more atheists and agnostics because there are more aspies in those churches who just don't know they are aspies and are rule bound, have black & white thinking, have difficult interpersonal relationships, are controlling of others . . . .

Z


I think that's only a partial explanation. Most atheists and agnostics are NT, though they may have some autistic traits (e.g., introversion).

Then again, many atheists and agnostics are also politically liberal, who tend to be less rule bound.



Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

09 May 2008, 5:19 am

IpsoRandomo wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
Discussing things with people who have some background in common can be very useful.
aH, so what's your background?


I was raised quite isolated in a Mormon family, quite strict in some respects and very liberal in others.


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


Zonder
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,081
Location: Sitting on my sofa.

09 May 2008, 5:22 am

IpsoRandomo wrote:
Zonder wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
It seems to me that religions with more restrictions on thought and social behavior (e.g., Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, fundamentalists) are the ones that make the most atheists.


I'm not Mormon but was raised fundamentalist Christian and I've seen a lot of ASD traits in fundamentalist churches. Maybe they produce more atheists and agnostics because there are more aspies in those churches who just don't know they are aspies and are rule bound, have black & white thinking, have difficult interpersonal relationships, are controlling of others . . . .

Z


I think that's only a partial explanation. Most atheists and agnostics are NT, though they may have some autistic traits (e.g., introversion).

Then again, many atheists and agnostics are also politically liberal, who tend to be less rule bound.


Fundamentalism attracts the extreme rule bound of the human spectrum and anyone who is not as rule bound will be uncomfortable remaining in the group, whether asipie or NT. You're right in saying that many atheists and agnostics tend to be less rule bound and more liberal, sometimes in the extreme. I've know a few of them as well. I see both fundamentalist and atheist as two sides of the same coin - wherever you see polar- or extreme opposite ways of thinking it might indicate the presence of Autism Spectrum Disorder. I'm not saying that everyone has ASD, but black & white thinking is definitely one of the aspie characteristics.



IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 5:27 am

Quote:
see both fundamentalist and atheist as two sides of the same coin


I think this view hinges on a strawman of the atheist position*. "Atheism" is usually defined as an absence of belief, which would also be its original Greek meaning.

Also, being rule-bound isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially where you are concerned with justifying your beliefs.

The problem is not so much that people are rule bound as it is that they don't tolerate mistakes in others, are not open to questioning, and have little tolerance for nuance (e.g., "black and white").

*Most people think the atheist argument is "there's no evidence for God, therefore God does not exist."

In actuality, atheists generally argue three things:

1) There's no evidence for gods, so theism cannot be justified on epistemic grounds.
2) There is evidence, not proof, against the existence of gods; so while the existence of gods cannot be entirely disproved, it is epistemically unlikely.
3) The existence of a god can in fact be ruled out if defined in such a way as to imply a contradiction (e.g., God is both omnipresent and non-spatial).



IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 5:40 am

Jainaday wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
Discussing things with people who have some background in common can be very useful.
aH, so what's your background?


I was raised quite isolated in a Mormon family, quite strict in some respects and very liberal in others.


Mine seems to be somewhat moderate.



Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

09 May 2008, 5:41 am

Actually, at present the formal definition of Atheism specifically refers to belief in the absence of any God.


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

09 May 2008, 5:43 am

IpsoRandomo wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
IpsoRandomo wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
Discussing things with people who have some background in common can be very useful.
aH, so what's your background?


I was raised quite isolated in a Mormon family, quite strict in some respects and very liberal in others.


Mine seems to be somewhat moderate.


I suppose to be clear-somewhat more politically liberal and sort of "kinder and gentler" minded. . . but conservative in their strictness of observance, which, along with other factors, ended up translating into a great deal of social isolation.

Which kind of moderate do you refer to?


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


IpsoRandomo
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 338
Location: Colorado Springs

09 May 2008, 5:45 am

Jainaday wrote:
Actually, at present the formal definition of Atheism specifically refers to belief in the absence of any God.


Fine, I'm not really concerned with what the formal definition is, just with what people actually think when using labels to classify themselves.



Zonder
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,081
Location: Sitting on my sofa.

09 May 2008, 5:50 am

IpsoRandomo wrote:
Quote:
see both fundamentalist and atheist as two sides of the same coin


I think this view hinges on a strawman of the atheist position*. "Atheism" is usually defined as an absence of belief, which would also be its original Greek meaning.

Also, being rule-bound isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially where you are concerned with justifying your beliefs.

The problem is not so much that people are rule bound as it is that they don't tolerate mistakes in others, are not open to questioning, and have little tolerance for nuance (e.g., "black and white").

*Most people think the atheist argument is "there's no evidence for God, therefore God does not exist."

In actuality, atheists generally argue three things:

1) There's no evidence for gods, so theism cannot be justified on epistemic grounds.
2) There is evidence, not proof, against the existence of gods; so while the existence of gods cannot be entirely disproved, it is epistemically unlikely.
3) The existence of a god can in fact be ruled out if defined in such a way as to imply a contradiction (e.g., God is both omnipresent and non-spatial).


I'm not referring to the actual belief in God or unbelief, but in the kind brain wiring and way of thinking that produces the belief. In their more extreme logic and ways of thinking, those I've known who are fundamentalist or are atheist, have some interesting similarities. There are just a lot fewer atheists than fundamentalists in the U.S.

Z



-
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 416
Location: Untied States

09 May 2008, 9:01 am

Jainaday wrote:
Wondering who else here is of some sort of Mormon, formerly Mormon, or Mormon related background. . .

It seems in some ways a particularly hard place for an aspie, the Mormon church. . . wondering everyone else's views. .


I suppose a lot of people, including those who no longer believe or who aren't sure anymore, remain in the church just for social purposes, to have friends. Someone who is more shy and socially isolated, on the other hand (maybe someone with AS), may not have that support to keep them from falling out of the group. Personally, I stopped believing a few years ago and more recently put in a formal resignation.