Daughter flees when she sees anyone (esp. other kids) crying

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DS is pretty good at building stuff. He's also very interested in the mini-figures, their names and what year they came out, etc.

Do I understand correctly the school isn't able to control the other child's behavior, your daughter wants to stay with her teacher where she feels more secure, and they want her to stop or you to fix this?

I think it's their job to make your daughter feel secure. I feel for the teacher, but maybe they should feel the pressure to fix this. You are trusting them to care for your child during her school day.

The facts are simple. The bully acts like my daughter has tormented her & has been aggressive towards her while my daughter responds by behaving in a very questionable manner. There is no actual or concrete proof - aside from my daughter's tearful complaints to me or the teacher - that the bully is actually the aggressor. If my daughter stood her ground, and cared to explain what actually happened to any adults who approached them, that's different. Instead, she takes off when the bully turns on the water tap, reinforcing the adults' beliefs that she is at fault.

The only way to fix this is to get my daughter's behaviour to change, for her to learn that it is important to stand up for herself, and not let the bully manipulate the situation with her fake tears. I am actually more unhappy with my own kid and far more concerned about her inability to handle this situation (since it is nothing new but has been going on for a while now) than with anything else. Life teems with bullies and ne'er-do-wells and attempting to escape from such people will rarely solve the underlying issue. The sooner that she learns to defend herself and give back as good as she gets, the better. The school can only help her if she is willing to help herself.

I understand what you're saying. I just think that her staying with the teacher puts pressure on the teacher, who sounds like she's a decent sort, to try to help your daughter solve the problem right there and that works a lot better than trying to do it long-distance.

My daughter has trouble standing up for herself, too. I agree--very frustrating.

Yes, for once, we actually have a teacher who seems to care about doing the right thing. However, the teacher is limited in how much she can do. Attaching herself to the teacher or expecting the teacher to follow her around and to fight the bullies on her behalf is neither possible nor preferable. The need of the hour is really for me to focus on my daughter and work on her assertiveness (or lack thereof). Life abounds with bullies - so escape is not at all a workable, long-term solution / option. Running away or expecting other people to fight her battle will only weaken her and worsen existing problems, so she *must* learn to stand her ground.

I just feel that in order to learn how to be assertive, one needs to see that it works. Once that happens, she'll be open to doing as you suggest.

Maybe you could have her practice with you, a friend, even some dolls or stuffed animals? As this has been going on awhile, adults may seem to her to have made up their minds about her.

It's the school's job to protect students from bullying. How they achieve that can be up for discussion, but the fact that they must do it is not. Ask them what their plan is. Make it clear that you expect them to have one. It doesn't matter if the other girl's mother is the queen of the PTA. Sometimes you have to play the bytch card. Queen of the stone cold bytches beats PTA queen any day of the week. If you can't defend your daughter, why do you think she should be able to?

Why do I think who should be able to ?

I agree with YippySkippy. It is the school's job to protect against bullying.

Obviously you want your child to be able to get help herself when she needs it, but you seem to be saying that several adults who monitor the playground are saying your daughter is in the wrong. That would be really tough for a child.

I think either a)she is in the wrong, b)the other child is extremely manipulative and she has done nothing wrong or c) she's not done what she is accused of but is acting in a socially unskillful way that isn't what the situation requires. I also think almost all children may need to be explicitly taught and shown how to handle particularly difficult situations such as this seems, and although we have all been there.....and I have certainly felt the frustration of saying "just do this" and seen my child fail to follow through.... all children may need to be taught and shown.

Of course this is probably one of the reasons school staff don't like me very much and find me strange.

I just want to know what you are proposing the school should be doing. The hows of the matter. HOW do you propose the school help her ? While it's an issue that the bully's mother is the PTA bad-@ss, there is another (and in my opinion, a far bigger) problem here. THAT problem is my daughter's completely unacceptable reaction to the bully's tears. She claims that when she sees the witch fake-crying, ALL she wants to do is "run 30 miles away" (her exact words to me). She also is unable to explain WHY she wants to run away, and it seems a purely instinctive reaction to me.

And, let's face it. The bully is cunning enough to harass my kid when no one else is around. The reason she starts to raise a fuss when she sees an adult approach is because she knows that she who turns on the water tap will get the most sympathy. It is a completely manipulative, and - pardon my language - a b1tchy thing to do. The little witch is ALL of 10 years old and she's already learned how to pick her victims. From what I learn from the teacher, other kids have also complained about her, but no adult has ever been able to actually "catch her in the act". She appears to be the ultimate manipulative little pest and she seems to have figured out that my daughter is an easy victim.

I have complained all I can, and got the Principal involved. However, no action can be taken because - as I said - the bully is cunning enough to not torment my kid when an adult is actually around AND when an adult does approach them to see if anything is up, the bully stands around crying her crocodile tears, while the real victim - my daughter - is gone.

Under these circumstances, and as her parent, I believe that my priority is to train my kid to stand strong and defend herself. Until she learns to do this OR unless the bully slips one day and picks someone in plain view of any adults, I personally do not see how the school can help.

If the other child is very manipulative and never gets caught despite tormenting numerous children, what good would staying really do her?

What you are describing about the other child sounds scary.

Staying and explaining her side of the story *is* the only thing for her to do. When she runs away, she gives the impression that she is fleeing because she is guilty and is afraid of the adult punishing her.

Catch my point ?

HisMom, I get what you are saying. I don't disagree with it as far as the principles of it go. The issue is what is being asked of your daughter is beyond her current capabilities. There are many things that if push came to shove and my son had to do it, he just could not do ot, and he would fail. (Been there done that)

So, the problem is, I think, the situation has to be scaffolded in some manner, while your daughter works on assertiveness. I understand that her teacher needs the free period, and I guess the library is not available, so then the school needs to allocate some other staff person to either function as a recess aide, who will keep a distance that is not hovering, but within visual range of what goes on.

Here is why I think that: In addition to your daughter's lack of assertiveness, she probably also has a lack of confidence because none of the recess monitors believe her. This severely undermines her ability to assert herself. Sticking up for herself to un-friendlies is an advance skill not a basic one. It is also likely to contribute to the crying impulse/instinct. In addition, the monitors are likely to double-down and dig in, now that they think they have your daughter's number, and given that their handling of this has been (rightly) questioned. Now, they are going to want to prove they have been right all along. I don't see a child with assertiveness issues doing this without massive help. I can't tell you the number of times my son (in my presence- so I have seen it) has admitted to doing things he has not done in the face of pressure, and he is not exactly a shrinking violet. This is a natural tendency of children (many children) in the face of authority. Think of all the NT adults who have been tricked into false confessions. Standing up to authority is hard.

Agree with ASDMommy. And once people are questioned very tough to get them to change their minds. No ine wants to give in, no one wants to be wrong. It would be (I think) beyond most 10 year olds at this point to successfully advocate for themselves. I get things would be better if she'd been able to behave differently in the first place, but now, I doubt a 10 year old could do what you hope without a teacher or social worker or parent etc. at her side to support her (is this an option?) Just my opinion, I know you may feel differently

I actually do think / agree that she needs help to deal with this bully, especially because she (DD) has caused herself to be viewed with extreme suspicion due to her questionable behaviour in this matter so far.

I believe that I mentioned here that I asked the district to get her a thorough evaluation in all areas of suspected disability. Long story short, we will have an IEP in April. Even if I called an emergency IEP today, the district has 30 days to do so, so I may as well just wait for the currently scheduled date to hold it. She is on target to transition to the middle school in the Fall. Now, if the psychologist reports even a whiff of potential ASD in her (and something tells me that he will), then I will be doubling down and demanding an aide in middle school, in addition to OT to provide remediation for her challenges with hand writing. She needs a classroom / recess / lunch aide NOW, but we cannot get one without an IEP. My only option at this time is to pull her out of school immediately, sign up for an independent study program to finish up the rest of the school year at home, and then demand a full-time class-room / recess / lunch aide, and OT services at the IEP. I know that completing the school year from home is letting the bully win, but that's OK. I would rather not expose DD to this toxic little monster and just don't know how we can get her an aide to help her without an IEP ?

Do you folks have any workarounds on how to make this happen ?

Another thing is - I need to work on those assertiveness / social skills during the summer. Do you have any experience with where and how to source such training ? I also suspect an anxiety disorder - obviously something is causing her to flee when she hears crying (and that is also when she sees me weeping after a particularly horrendous time with my son sometimes), and I need to absolutely address that as well. Gee, I think Summer's going to be fun this year.

It doesn't matter whether she has an IEP. All students must be protected from bullying, even NT students, and it's the school's responsibility to figure out how to do that.