typical aspie behavior?

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Hi everyone,

My 8 yr old son was dx with aspergers in December. I am trying to figure out if his behavior is typical or something more.

We have been having trouble with back talking. I can not give a good example right at this moment but if we have to do something that he does not want to do or tell him to do something that he does not want to do he ends up talking about why he does not want to do it and that he won't do what you want him to do.

He is also really good at trying to turn it around on you, it is always someone elses fault.
He will do something right in front of you and as soon as you ask him why he did it he will deny it.
( I wish I could think of an example.) Like when he is playing with his younger brother and he pushes his brother or hits him~ he will say it was an accident or he didn't do it.

He also is very good at trying to change the subject if he has done something wrong and you are trying to talk to him~ he becomes upset and will bring up something that he believes you or someone else has done wrong.

Am I making any sense? lol... ugh.

I was talking with someone I know that is a teacher and she admits to not knowing much about Aspergers and Autism but she said that my son has behavioral issues besides his aspergers. (Her son plays with my son. Her son is an only child and is PERFECT in their eyes.) I wonder if she is right, but we have watched her son with my son and he is very good at pushing my son to get a reaction from him. My son is not perfect I know but their son does not help by any means.

I have thought about keeping my son from being around this kid but he is my sons only friend.
My son wants to fit in with other kids but has to control everything which does not go over well. My son having to have control over everything when playing with others is another problem.

Are these behaviors normal? Any suggestions to help us understand where he is coming from and how to better handle the situations? Help!! !! lol
Thank you,
Kristen

It's typical for NT's and autistics/aspies to "backtalk". My son (HFA) backtalks and/or denies what's going on all the time. The problem is that we don't have the X-ray machine out to decipher what is motivating him to do this. Sometimes, it's because he is being blindsided/overwhelmed by disapproval, sometimes he is just pushing buttons to doublecheck the rules. His language is getting better and he can tell me when my voice is bothering him. Then we can discuss the issue in a different way. Sometimes, the anxiety (and aggressive behavior) just escalates and he has to be punished-when the original issue was my wanting to give advice. I stress using "polite" words and letting people finish their sentence. Contradicting is more of a pet peeve than a behavior problem.

It may be different for Asperger's but because my son was non-verbal for so long, we catered to his whims once he did start talking and making sense. It was hard to find the cut off point. He still is a bit behind so we still have "celebrations" when he has communication breakthroughs. It get used against us though, when he thinks we will always celebrate everything he says.

My mom used to tell me not to talk back, and I never understood what she was talking about. I figured most talking was "talking back," because you are answering to what the other person just said. So needless to say, I kept doing it and kept getting in trouble without ever understanding what I was doing wrong.

I also brought up stuff that other people did. My little sister would be so mean one minute and then expect me to lend her something of mine or do something for her later, so we would get into these tremendous fights. Everyone thought that it was because I was being selfish, so I would bring up the fact that that same day she was doing some incredibly mean thing to me and that is why I didn't want her to wear my sweater. Well, nobody wanted to hear it and just assumed I was selfish all the time. But it really had nothing to do with the sweater or whatever at all, but more to do with my sense of justice or fairness. So I can kind of sympathize with your son. If it does have something to do with aspieness, I would assume it is that he might not understand all the social implications of everyone's actions. I think that my sister took full advantage of me because she did and knew that I didn't. So she could be as mean as she wanted and still get my mom to make me loan her my stuff and help her with her homework.

my brother was the same way to me, mean and then tell on me-knowing he would be believed over me. As an adult, he regretted the things he did and said and we both believe it was our parents playing us against each other.

I try to explain to my son what "back talk" is, I don't know if he gets it. He doesn't understand what tones mean, so he gets confused when voices get louder or words come out faster. Intellectual debates, chatter between my husband and I get him really mad and he interrupts or leaves the room.

Another aspect is not knowing the social hierarchy in the family. Although we try to be as democratic and respectful as possible, sometimes you don't tell Mom to shut up. Sometimes Mom or Dad has the last word and that's the way it goes. But that goes over his head too and he doesn't understand why he can't make the rules. (I have been "sent to my room")

my daughter will talk back and then, when i tell her that she needs to stop~she tells me that she's not talking back, she's just answering me.

you descirbed my son... he was dx when he was 6. although your son does seem to the NT eye to have behavioral issues I have to say its his way of not coping with his issues. what i mean is that he can not or will not see that he has Aspergers. and its hard for them to understand that they do have Aspergers at this age. i personally think most kids do not really understand this until they are in their teens.. as for the perfect kids I would allow you son to play with him until he tells you he does not want to anymore. my nephew i think is a bully to the worst extent and he takes advantage of ryan and blames everything on Ryan.. Ryan will no longer play with him and refuses to have much to do with him.. i would find a therapist for your son because what he is doing is typical but he needs guidance as to how to handle these things. and maybe find social skills classes so he can learn basics that make him feel left out in the crowd.. truthfully i don't see your son as different than mine.. growing up in this world is very hard today but growing up with something like AS is really hard on a kid.. to fit in is everything. i think there is even more peer pressure to fit in due to shows like Disney channel, Nick movies and shows..its all about what you look like and how popular you are.. I have seen this time and time again on Disney... so its hard for a kid..

I think this is very typical - my diagnosed son (9), has done this as long as he's been able to speak .
I understand it now but it does cause some social problems, and problems at school because the teachers fear that they will be undermined in front of the other kids. It's tricky. Personally I have just learnt to grow a thick skin, and do what my son does - filter him out if he's getting me down! .

Obviously, if your son admits to doing something bad he gets in trouble. So he'd rather lie and mess with your head. Though I doubt he knows it messes with your head. He just knows if he admits to hitting the little brother, he gets into trouble.

So somehow you need to reward honesty no matter how bad the activity was. A bit like rewarding a naughty dog when it comes when it is called - otherwise all you do is teach it not to come to you. You have to deal with the naughtiness in another way.

I get this kind of crap when I referee sport. When they start back chatting or questioning my decision, I tell them to stop, and if they don't, I apply the appropriate punishment - give the ball to the other team, increase the penalty, or send that player off. If they want to know why - more back chat - if I can explain I do, if I already have explained, and they're arguing with me, I say "I didn't see it the same way as you and you don't get to argue about my decision". If they outright lie about what they've done, I tell them I saw it differently and stick with my decision. They get no reward for lying.

I occasionally use "because I said so" when there is no time for explaining. If you feel your decision being undermined by the arguing, you need to cut the argument off with something like "I'm in charge, so what I say goes, I've explained, you get to live with it."

This is tricky because sometimes the kid is going to be right or come up with something that could really help. But I think it is also fair for you to say "I'm too tired / angry / upset / late to argue or explain right now - can you save it for a time when I'm feeling better". And then you have to make an effort to give the kid some time - say 30 minutes when he can get all the explaining he or you can handle. Apparently I was completely obnoxious at school until my parents gave me some "me time".

And NT kids will lie to stay out of trouble too - so it's not exclusively aspie.

We have the same issues with Chris (8 yrs). It almost seems to me like he has mood swings. One minute he is a wonderful but eccentric kid telling you how much he loves you. Then he will be playing with his sibs and get violently angry. I have tried to explain to him that they are younger than him and that they have to learn just as he does about appropriate behavior. He does lie. We explain to him that if he lies he will be punished twice (have nintendo taken away and lose tv privledges as an example). We encourage him to tell the truth and if the offense was not bad we do not punish but help him to understand why he should not do the behavior again and how he can handle it next time. It is hard to figure out if any of this is helping him. He also argues or talks back. Yes, sometimes I just tell him that his Dad and I make the rules and that when he is the Dad he will get to make the rules. He is beginning to grasp that concept.

It is very hard and often frustrating. I wish there was something insightful that I could share with you, just know that you are not alone. It is hard enough raising kids without having to figure out/second guess if you are doing things right with your Aspie. Some days I just wish I could wave a wand and make the world more understandable for Chris.

Katherine

My son doesn't lie - he has a different perspective on what happened. It took us a long time to figure this one out, but once we started asking him why something happened, or what he thought happened, we found he has an alternate perception of what happened. The biggest thing was a box at school last year - teacher said he broke the box and then lied. Well, his take is that he did NOT break the box - he saw the dotted line for folding the lid and he folded it. The line was there, it was supposed to be folded and nobody specifically told him not to do that. Yes, he was wrong, I explained to the teacher why it happened and why her punishment didn't really fit the situation because no one explained why his actions were wrong. He insisted it was supposed to be folded and he was helping. On the surface, I can see where it appeared he was lying, but in his way of thinking, he did not break the box.

The word "stop" is useless at our house since it gets used in so many different ways. Instead we had to come up with "Red Light" to get him to actually stop what he was doing and listen.

I don't know what to call it, but he sort of thinks only from the inside of his head. He doesn't always get the big picture. We are working on his (now occasional) tantrums and meltdowns. He will throw things and then tell me it was my fault because I made him mad. Now, I didn't pick up that book and force it into his hand and then direct it toward the wall, but he still blames me since I made him mad.

As far as the other "perfect" boy, supervise them closely and try to intervene before the other boy sets him off. We've had those "friends" here too and sometimes, no friends may be better than that. Particularly since that boy's mother apparently has little regard for you as well, so you're getting it twice.

As the one noted, your son is probably overwhelmed so taking control is the only way to anticipate what's coming next. It does seem selfish to others, but it's more self-preservation. My son does much better with games where there are established rules (and don't you dare break the rules). Perhaps some board games or card games would be helpful and less stressful for both boys. My son loves dueling with Yu-Gi-Oh! and there are some very strict rules there so he can handle that game. Same with Monopoly, Stratego, Battleship, Trouble, Checkers, etc.

Oh, and since she's a teacher, diagnoses are in the 1 in 166 children range, so she better start learning a little something about ASDs - she's probably seen them in her school so she better start getting prepared. Social and behavior issues ARE a huge part of ASDs because they think differently, they interpret differently, they are creative and affectionate, but don't break the rules - even the unwritten rules that they have developed in order to cope.

My son lies about some of the craziest things too. I can be standing right there and he will still lie about something. It can be so aggravating and it has gotten worse the past few months.

This is my son to a "T". He's 7 right now, and will be 8 in March. This was also me at this age... my first word was always "why"...so I tend to overlook what to me is the minor stuff and try to explain things the best that I can ...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and then we have some quiet time in our room to think things over.

My ex has big issues with this....he is NT and has the "you do what you are told to do NOW" attitude.

I remember my mom said that for a long time whenever I was with other kids, they always had to play with me-- that I didn't play with them. It always had to be my way.

I think that can be typical Aspie behavior.

Same here, i only played certain types of game and if they weren't played my way, or i didn't want to play them i wouldn't. I'd just go off and do my own thing....which i've allways done very easily. Apparantly it used to drive my sister made because i wouldn't play with her and she thought i was being mean, or because i would insist on games being played in one, precise way!!