Asperger's and God

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Let me just say to you all that we are born again Christians and have a relationship with God. We don't consider it a religion. We believe the Bible is the word of God. My daughter has been raised in a Christian home all her life and is a believer. She however hasnt been saved yet. The problem is that we have been to several churches over the years and leave when we realize they are nothing more than motivational speaking centers. In doing so, my daughter has never gotten truly rooted into it. When she has been in the kids church, because of her AS doesn't make friends or fit in. She sits with us and of course is bored. No one is shoving anything down her throat and since she is a child she will learn to believe the way we feel a child should be brought up, in Gods word. She sees Godly living in our home every day. We are honest law abiding citizens and expect the same from her. She is at a point now, due to depression and AS that she doesn't care about anything, from school, to Church to washing her hair. And yes, it is due to her AS that she lacks empathy, therefore lacks the normal feeling one would have for a savior dying for our sins, which by the way, we all have.

And if anyone is beating a child that person is not a Christian in the first place so why turn your back on God? He didn't beat you, your misguided ignorant father did.

I completely agree with your
last sentence. It's hard to find a church that's not all fluff.

Your comment is spot on. She has been brought up in a Christian home and always had held to the same beliefs. She is just now hating life and everything about it. Naturally we are concerned why she feels like God doesn't love her, the same as we are concerned why a gorgeous girl now thinks she's ugly. If you dont try and understand your kids who else will?

The subject of empathy and AS is a hotly contested issue. The majority of people with AS will tell you that we do have empathy, it's just of a different sort. The reason it sometimes seems like people with AS lack empathy is because it is harder for some of us to recognise the emotions that someone is feeling through tone of voice or facial expressions, but if it is properly explained what the emotion is, then we can empathise.

Also, I would argue that is isn't a feeling that we all have - some sort of emotional reaction to someone 'dying for our sins'. I know that I have never experienced this. I know many of my friends and relatives have not experienced this. Which is why we're atheists, that and a lot of other reasons.

I know that I can look up to the sky, and around in awe of the natural universe, and the processes which lead to its existence. But I don't try to attribute it to a deity.

It seems arrogant to me to claim you know The Definitive Truth and everyone else's truth is wrong. Although you're free to believe whatever you wish, you cannot impose your beliefs on other people, even your children. They are not extensions of yourself, they're their own people.

There are 20,000 some different religions in the world. If you ask the adherents of each one, they will tell you theirs is the only true way. Just because you were born in the West doesn't mean you should blindly accept Christianity; or from the East. become a Buddhist, or from the Arab world, become a Muslim. There are truths in every religion and everyone needs to accept for themselves what they are going/not going to believe.

Marm, I was thinking about this and while from your descriptions I'm not sure you'd be accepting of any of the ritualistic denominations, it might actually be something your daughter connects to better. My AS son loves ritual and predictability, which is one of the reasons he had such an easy path to faith in the Catholic church. You receive holy communion at age X after completing steps A - L. You are confirmed and receive the Holy Spirit (pretty much the Catholic equivalent to being saved, ie making a decisive "adult" decision to have faith) at 13-16, depending on the parish, after completing steps M - Z. The paths are very clear there, which might be a whole lot easier for your daughter to grasp than the "died for our sins, personal savior" model. I realize that you may believe that the later is the only model that will get her saved, but I've had that theological argument with quite a few people, and rather than try to enter into a PPR debate here, I will repeat what I indicated in my earlier post: I truly believe that there are many paths to faith and being saved (ie having a future in Heaven), and I strongly believe that God designed it that way because He knows what His diverse children need. I have spent a lot of time in many different churches and have done retreats with various evangelical groups, but in the end decided to return to the faith family I was raised in, feeling that in a way it was what God had chosen for me.

Unfortunately there are many adults who have had horrible experiences in the Catholic church (I believe TallyMan being one of them), and as with any church, how things play out in a parish varies quite a bit from parish to parish, diocese to diocese. So I can't say if it could work for your daughter, but if your goal is for her to find meaningful faith, you may have to consider many different options, and it could be worth exploring. If the language you use to describe your faith experience and belief system doesn't make sense to her, dragging her to a dozen churches that all use the same language and system won't change it. But allowing her to experience faith in an entirely different way quite possibly will. You just have to have faith that maybe it is what God wants for her.

Let's say she lacks the empathy and the normal feeling one could have for a savior dying for our sins. How is it logically possible for her to accept Jesus as her lord and savior? How is it possble for her to have the ability to accept him? If it is not possible and if Jesus is God then did God create her without the ability to choose him therefore negating part of her freewill? If she lacks freewill in this regard then is she correct in what she says that God does not love her? If my logic is wrong and I have a fallacy will you please show me?

Disclaimer: I am not a religious person

If I am understanding what you are saying it is that your daughter is a believer in your religion in general, but not at the "born again" stage. Is that right?

My very limited understanding of this process is that the whole point of requiring this step is that the person is supposed to come to this realization in a serious, sincere way when she is ready and not when other people decide that for her. I do not know what age for which is this sincerely typical (as opposed to going through the motions for peers and family) but I don't know that in your belief system that this matters, or should matter. I would presume being "saved" at 50 is just as good as 15, but that is based on very limited knowledge.

Aspies tend to be authentic people. They do not necessarily conform to expectations, and I would think that you would be pleased. here is why:

1) How many kids do you think probably fake it to please their parents (or at least get them off their case) and fit in with the peers in their community? Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, that is not truly beings"saved." So she is probably actually closer to this then the fakers because she takes religion seriously enough not to "blaspheme" it with fakery. People willing to fake it are not truly spiritual, and I doubt it "counts."

2) It does not sound like she is rejecting your religion (I do not think that would be a horrible thing because I believe people have the right to choose their own religion or none ---but I recognize to you this would be terrible.) So she is at least somewhat receptive to being "witnessed to." It is up to you to choose how to do this in a way that is respectful of her spiritual autonomy and agency so you do not poison it for her. That gives you an opportunity to be the best (sincerest and most respectful) Christian you can be.

3) She is clearly upset about certain aspects of her life, based on what you have said. This gives you the opportunity to help her with those things and make her a happier person. That might make her more receptive as her world would be better and maybe she would see that as more consistent with a universe created by a benevolent deity.

4) Maybe she should focus on her more worldly issues right now. She always has you to look at as a role model, so maybe quiet "witnessing" is the way to go right now.


Note: My quotation marks are not meant to be disrespectful, but mainly to note that I may or may not be using these religious-based words correctly.

I pondered for a while whether I should comment on this. However, with recent remarks and tallyman' retraction, I feel compelled. It can't be allowed to continue being socially acceptable to come into an autism forum, insinuate we are godless for being autistic and expect respect to be shown towards religion.

So let me suggest an alternative, also unfounded theory based solely on pure ignorance too:

People that can empathize with jesus, a fictional character from a story as if he was real comes from a lack of mental ability, therefore lacks normal logical thought, which by the way, we all have.

I actually can't decide if what you say is genuine or your just trolling. To suggest everyone, and more specifically those of us with AS are atheists because of a disability is 10^∞ times more offensive than calling someones belief in a sky fairy as bul**hit, yet it is Tallyman retracting his words.

Ditto!

Ignorant religious sheep.
I concur with Tallyman and cherrycoke, on this.
I sure as hell hope you never express that particular view with your daughter.

To tell your daughter who already struggles to even resemble a normal person that she is further inadequate for something so stupid.
To threaten her with eternal damnation if she doesn't conform to your every ideal.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.


Just because someone doesn't "feel" for a guy who by all ACTUAL evidence never existed.
Who supposedly died so that your oh so very "loving" "compassionate" god did not sentence every soul on this planet to eternal torture in the fiery pits of hell for the simple act of living.
The god that demands we worship him, and offer ourselves entirely to him or live in eternal agony.
The god that you speak to every night and never answers, who millions pray to save their dying loved ones and never answers, who allows people to live a life trapped in their bodies unable to move, die horrible painful and embarrassing deaths by cancer.
The god who's very name commands Genocides, Crusades, the murder and degradation of supposed "sinful" people.
Doesn't mean we are evil, misguided or even without empathy, it simple means we have a differing opinion then you because we look at it logically instead of like a blind sheep.

I think we should all keep in mind that this is the "Parents Discussion" part of the forum.

This needs to be a safe place for parents to ask questions. Because if they don't ask them here, they might ask them somewhere else, where they will not have the benefit of autistic insight.

When I first came to autism (when my daughter was first diagnosed) I thought her only option was to sit in a corner with a helmet on her head, rocking. I was fearful that she would be unable to feel love or happiness. I was not trying to be ignorant or offensive; I was just horribly misinformed.

I was very lucky to have found a group of adult autistics on line (somewhere else) who very patiently answered my "stupid" and probably sometimes "offensive" questions. They nurtured me and understood that this was new to me and that I needed to learn.

When we use some of the language and phrasing that has been used here, directed toward this mom who is simply asking a question, we are the browbeaters. We are the people who talk down to and degrade another person because we perceive them to be ignorant. We believe our worldview to be of greater value, and therefore feel warranted in verbally lashing someone else into submission.

Let me ask two questions:

1) How is that possibly OK? If we are to rise up against the oppression we have felt, how is it possibly OK to behave in the exact same manner toward someone else?

2) How is that possibly going to help this woman gain the insight she needs to help her daughter?

If people are not visiting this forum to help, then I suggest you simply don't read it. I mean, I know I am new here. But I am not new to autism, nor am I new to how groups of autistics interact on the internet. Nor am I new to the concept that you are more likely to reach someone and help them change their mindset through kindness and patience and not insults, hatred, and mocking.

Consider me officially annoyed, something that does not happen very often.

Sorry for the ranting disruption. I just had to get it off my chest and I need to go now. Or I will continue to perseverate and this post will stretch to China.

Ok, then how about this.

Your daughter has enough problems in life without her own parents telling her she is an ugly person even in the eyes of her parents and god.
Enforcing that she is not only physically ugly, but ugly on the inside, in her core.
So broken that she can not even feel a love that should be as natural as breathing.

Words pierce so much deeper then anything physical ever could.

I, as one parent, don't at all mind the adult aspies' point of view that have posted here. I think it goes a very long way to describing their thought processes on trying to understand something which is basically impossible for anyone to understand. I do think it is a bit hypocritical to want their opinions all the time but be very upset when they touch the religion nerve. Their opinions are raw, and uncluttered by political correctness or social etiquette and I don't mind the bluntness of their answers, which in my opinion are as valid as everyone else's.

This board is here due to the Aspies NOT the parents. Without the Aspies WP would not exist! You cannot shame the aspies for their viewpoint in my opinion when you are in "their house" (for lack of a better term). There are plenty of parenting websites out there without the Aspies if you want the clean pc version of this discussion. It's hard I know-I remember being really upset over several things since I've been on this board-but we must remember, parenting section or not, this is here BECAUSE they are here.

Just a note regarding the complaints:

Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
This can be found here http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73835.html and as far as I know no one has attacked the op for their views they have just tried to provide their own views.

This topic happens to be watched by quite a few moderators at the time for a number of reasons and as far as I know none of us have found/deleted a personal attack on the op.




That said alex is the one that decides how the rules should be applied/changed and any of you can send him your suggestions at [email protected].
Until he says otherwise the rules linked above are what we are going to follow on this section