Simons Simplex Aggression webinar

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As promised the aggression vid. Also long. I shared much of this information with Chloe's school during the last IEP. Its the kind of info that makes me think.

http://youtu.be/NLZADAQmZDM

Again not a redirect or link to a site. Nothing for sale. Just info.

Thanks for posting this and more importantly... Is there another part to it? I got to 18:56 on the vid and it stopped, were just getting in to the interesting part.

Working properly now... got the whole thing going. Not sure what happened, but thanks, it is very interesting.

I also found it very interesting.

About the time I first watched: We were having issues at the school with Chloe and hitting. So when I attended the IEP meeting I broke out some of the information from the SSCs (Simons Simplex Community study) . Specifically the information that point toward different motivation for her aggression compared to NT's. Which I highlighted to make the point that since her motivation we different. The interventions would need to be different to the NT's that the school typically addresses. And because I kind of went nuts on them when the reported the hitting. So I also used the part that describes what a big issue this is for parents.

There are a couple of items that I think are worth mentioning here. One that might be reassuring to parents is that: Typically the occurrence of aggression lessons with age. Not to say that there is no aggression nor that it can be said for everyone. Only less .

The other thing That I thought would just be kinda interesting. Is the discrepancy between NT's and ASD's related to aggression and parents status. specifically that the results show a increase in aggression when parents have more education and resources. In contrast to NT's who show an increase of aggression to parents with lower education and less resources. I have several theories but no one I really know is into it like me. Maybe you all would?

I propose: If there is anything you find interesting on the video post it here. I think it would be a cool conversation.

Well, i also find it interesting because it is the single most stressful thing for us that our DS (14) does. He wasn't always like this too... was always a "handful", meltdowns at every little thing... but it used to be if he hurt anyone, it was an accident (ie. clumsy, or upset and flailing about but not aggressive, just upset). I would NEVER have thought he was capable of intentionally hurting someone, didn't believe it until I saw it... repeatedly.
There was a shift at around 9yrs and interestingly this was also the time where he became more hyper sensitive to sensory influences. Prior to this he was a child who loved everything loud louder and bright brighter, he was so hyposensitive to pretty much everything. These days not so, not always. especially when he is stressed he becomes sensitive to those things. It's a puzzle really because one day he can love the music loud and the next, it seems painful for him. The question was asked in that webinar if sensory sensitivities increased the risk of a child showing aggression, it wasn't something they looked at. Hopefully future studies will do that. I see a link in my son.

Also the ritualistic behaviours. I'm nodding my head vigorously on that one. Many of the incidents we have with DS are related to him being interrupted in some way from his rituals, or things not going the way they are "supposed" to go. So that link they found is clear to me.

I was surprised that there wasn't a link between language (lack of) and aggression. My eldest DS has very little language and I always thought that played a part. As in "Oh, he can't tell us how he is feeling, doesn't have the words to express his anger/ frustration... so he hits". Doesn't appear to be so. I guess even those with language can lose the ability to speak when under great stress, so just having language doesn't mean you can draw on that skill when you really need to.

I am always hoping that DS will learn the skills needed to control these aggressive urges. We are trying to teach him to go and lie down when he is showing signs of being overwhelmed. Hard to control the rituals though, I'd love advice on that. He manages to make the smallest thing in to a ritual. Even going for a walk (ie where to cross the road has to be same) or bouncing his ball (he has a pattern to follow that if interrupted makes him very anxious and we know to call the other kids to move away from him). He has been on Risperdal to help the aggression for about 3 years. It does help, incidences are reduced, but it's no miracle.

Would be interested to hear your theories on why those children with ASD, whose parents are on higher incomes, are at a higher risk of showing aggression. Not that we are, we are very middle class. Wish I was rich, would love to hire a cleaner, or a cook, or a nanny. Actually all three!

Yup, ritualistic behavior and rigidity. I can totally see it in DS and other kids I know (also aggressive) like him.

Interestingly, DH seems more rigid than I and struggled with aggression until he was about 12 (DS seems to have stopped at the same age - just like the study.) I can think of three aggressive episodes in my life, and they were pretty much self-protection. In other words, we line right up with that study.

Thanks for the link, this was fascinating!

That surprised me also. If you think about it. If I am trying to communicate and am not understood I get frustrated a might lash out a little. So I would think it plays a part.

One thing about the meds.

When Chloe started supplements we swore by them. The most effective intervention she had done to date. As time went on we would run out for short periods of time. This made us even bigger fans because she would quickly regress. Over the holidays we ran out and had to make another appointment before we restocked. We found that what we had thought was regression was actually kind of a withdrawal from not having them anymore. And that after a 2 weeks time she was actually better off without them.

I am not implying your boy does not need the meds. Just like "momsparky" mentioned and like is presented in the study. Many of her more challenging behavior have lessened with age. and without the supps. And I am also not saying these interventions are without value. Just that its extremely difficult to figure out when the stop becoming part of the solution and start becoming part of the problem.

Ps I am really glad you all liked the link. I was not sure how it would be received. I think the evaluation is also interesting and especially useful for people new to this world. But most of us with a few years of this under our belt. Kinda figured most of that out ourselves. There are some interesting nuggets in their though.

The aggression stuff certainly is a tough call - and I note that he specifically mentioned risperdal, which is one of the meds that scares me most: side effects can include twitches and tics that last well after the medication is discontinued.

Don't get me wrong - there comes a point where you are out of options, and it's a risk worth taking for safety's sake. I only wish we had a better understanding of how to mitigate the side effects.

Yes, these meds are serious stuff. There was a time that I was very scared for my other children because of how aggressive their big brother was. Explosive and uncontrollable with very little warning that he was stressed and about to lash out. He could literally be smiling one minute and smashing a window the next. He 'targetted' one of the kids in particular more than the others...the decision to medicate was actually easy in the end, there was no other option.
He is not explosive like this anymore, it is the Risperdal still doing that? I think so, there were immediate improvements after he began taking it. We have been working with him in other ways too, to curb the aggression. For now it is staying, he has been happier on this med and he still has more to learn when it comes to controlling himself. I hope there comes a time soon where we will be comfortable to try him off the medication.
Re;side effects. they are there for him. He does have tics, but there was no alternative. We had so many people trying to help and nothing was working and we were scared someone would get seriously hurt. DS takes Risperdal with clonodine to try to calm him down in general. I believe if you were to meet him, you would understand why he is medicated.

I wish we didn't have to do this to him, I wish there were no side effects and I wish that the things that push him to this point didn't make him act this way. I hope he 'grows out of it' and learns the skills he needs to cope better with stress and change. That would be a dream come true.
That's why this research is so interesting to me, there have to be other ways surely?, we just don't know enough yet, in the meantime we are all just trying to stay afloat.

Believe me - I understand, and we were right on the edge of medicating ourselves (fortunately for us, DS figured it out right on the timeline shown by this study. Otherwise, that was the option we had left.) I don't judge anyone for making that choice - I just want to make sure that people who are thinking about it are aware of the side effects. There does come a point when the outcomes without medication are significantly scarier than the possibility of tics (note that the study does show that the primary reason for placement in a facility is aggression.)

I would be willing to bet that the Risperdal is what's helping your son right now - that is what it is supposed to do. I am glad you're getting the support you need and you seem to have a doctor who knows how to handle it.

I think this is the actual study:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-010-1118-4

I have access to it through my university, so if anyone's really wanting to read it, I can send you a copy.