8yr old ASD Son takes action himself for being bullied.

Post Reply New Topic

My 8yr old son has ASD. DS also has a touch of ADHD. Currently taking Risperdal and Klonopin. He has a very big spacial bubble. I have told the teachers over and over again that he needs to have his space away from other children. As I have gotten several calls from school saying that he has punched/kicked/pinched other kids at school. The first thing they ask, what is going on at home..... Usually I say nothing has happened or changed. Usually nothing has happened at home. Today for instance. His IEP director called and said that he was being punished for pinching a little girl at school, and ask if something at home has changed or is going on. I told them no. I then ask why did he pinch the little girl. (actually a boy my son told me when he got home) She said that he just pinched her for no reason... Now my son comes home all the time saying that kids are calling him names, punching, hitting, kicking, pinching him. So she ask what should they do with him. I said I did not have a clue, as he comes home and tells me that he is getting picked on and I have told him over and over to tell an adult. I then told her that the only thing I can think of is to just home school him or get a behavioral therapist for him as they can't do what I ask. Keep him from other students and to always have an adult near to actually see what is happening instead of taking a child's word for it. Now when my son got home he did not seem to be in a bad mood. I ask him what happened at school today. He got a very depressed sad look on his face and said nothing. I ask if he pinched a little girl at school. He said that he didn't pinch a little girl at school that he pinched a little boy. He is very upfront about all the situations we talk about. So first off the IEP director didn't even know it was a boy she said it was a girl. I then told DS again that he could not physically touch another classmate. To tell an adult if someone was bothering him. I ask him why he pinched him. He said that the boy pinched him first on the back of his neck and called him a butt and he did not like being called a butt so he pinched him and the boy told on him for pinching him. I could not see a mark on him. According to IEP director the other boy/girl did not do anything to my DS and she told me that no one actually seen what happened. I ask DS where he was and why he didn't tell a teacher. He said there was not a teacher there. I ask where he was in the school and he said he was standing in line and the boy was standing behind him in line. I then proceeded to the normal no electronics punishment and the crying for hours because of it and not wanting to go to school anymore so that he won't get in trouble anymore.

My question is how can my son always be at fault. That there is no way that the other children can be enticing him. Why does the school not know that ASD children have socialization problems. How do I get him to understand that he needs to tell an adult and not retaliate punishment himself. They are always saying he is the sweetest kid at school but then again he is always getting in trouble by other students. Does your publicly educated ASD child have an aide to be with them at all times? Does your child ride a public school bus for 3 hours a day. Is there a bus monitor? My DS is very emotional. Name calling really gets him angry. Sometimes he yells for the kids to stop taunting him and he gets in trouble for yelling. In the IEP meetings all they seem to want to talk about is how his education is. Last IEP meeting they wanted to assure me that his state testing would be taken very seriously and he would have someone reading for him and secluded and have breaks. I think they focus on how good the school grades will score and forget the real underlying problems. My son is above grade level in Math and Science. He says he gets bored in math that it is too easy. He is in second grade doing division and multiplication without anyone teaching him how to at all. I think if they put in as much effort in watching his social skills as they did his education he would be progressing more. They have shown me that they know very little about children with ASD or Aspie. My DS started school in this school system in 1st grade. He attended another school in Kansas and they actually knew more than I knew about ASD and how to work with him. He attended that school for 1 yr. Prior to that school we was in a Kentucky public school system and I pulled him out due to him being punished for peeing on the playground when he was in Kindergarten. Now we are back in a Kentucky public school system in a different county. Neither Kentucky public school systems have showed any accomplishments toward my sons well being.

Well that turned into a rant and vent. Sorry. I actually have lots more to say but am afraid that I am being to annoying. I have lots of questions as I am new here, and I have had no one to talk to about my son's life since he was diagnosed back in 2009. (this is my first post) Again sorry for the long post. Hopefully someone can give me some insight on what to do.

I wish give you concrete help, but we ended up having to pull our son b/c they had no clue how to handle my him. They did the same thing with asking first about things at home hoping they could blame us--when they themselves were changing things on our son.

You can ask for all sorts of things like a functional behavioral analysis, but unless they actually include accurate information, it won't do you much good. An aide would be helpful if you can get one, b/c it will be harder for other kids to do things to your son with an adult constantly around him.

I am sure other people will post with more actual help.

Wrightslaw.com has all kinds of positive suggestions for how to work with a school. If it is a lack of knowledge on their part, I imagine you're hoping they might hire an outside consultant, because if the teachers don't understand and include your child in a positive way, if they get impatient or ignore rather than understand and include, the other children, some at least, will follow that lead. Which you don't want, and hopefully can be minimized.

It's hard to work with schools, though, very hard. A lot of us have been there, too. Hope it gets better. And try the website, getting school staff to come up with ideas themselves so they can be right and have answers is very helpful when you can find a way to make that happen.

Every time I hear of a kid being mistreated at school, I get sad. We homeschoold our three kids and never had any regrets. We lived on much less money, but were never in want. If there is any way you can school at home, I would encourage it.

Kids are sly, and it starts about that age.

They poke and torment and no one will notice what they are doing...

...but you can bet the less savvy ASD kid will be in trouble if they push back.

I stayed out of trouble by never pushing back. I learned early that I was less and that it was completely OK for kids to do whatever they wanted to me, but I was not allowed to talk back or push back or really do anything but retreat.

So I retreated. All the way to my bedroom. I sicked out of school, and stopped talking in school, and started having fantasies of violence.

I wouldn't recommend that road.

I'd tell the school that, if you care going to tell your child never to stand up for himself, then they are going to have to deal with him tattling ALL THE TIME. And they have to stand up for him.

If they can't understand that, you are probably not ever going to be able to work together. If Kentucky is as ignorant as a lot of West Virginia (where I survived 13 years of public education) seems to be, you have my prayers. I hope you can work something out, but if not, don't be afraid to get your kid out of there.

If you know your son is telling the truth about the circumstances, personally I wouldn't have punished him at all. If he's not able to tell a teacher and he's not allowed to defend himself, then there's nothing for him to do but accept the bullying.

Thanks for the replies. The school is just not understanding at all. My son has an eating problem and is overweight. I specifically got his pediatrician to write a statement that he was not aloud to eat seconds or have sugar treats as a reward. They completely ignored that and has gained 20 pounds this year. Last year was the same. We always get him to loose weight during the summer then he puts it back on when back in school. He himself is always saying that he wants to be skinny.

I didn't know if I should punish him or not because we are trying to get through to him not to do physical harm to another child. He is a very big and strong boy and can seriously hurt someone. At least now he is only pinching and pushing. He was taking them down to the floor. Will like different decoration changes in the classroom cause sensory overload. For Instance this all started back around Thanksgiving and has continued through now. I know he notices ever change there is for anything. I am going to talk to pediatrician again to see if there is anything she can do. Like maybe get an aide to be with him at all times. The school suggested we try to change up his meds again. What, they just want him to be drugged and out of it all day. He is just fine at home or family gatherings. Except for the rare occasion his schedule may change. Anyways ty for the replies.

Well, as far as "drugged up" goes, it really doesn't get a whole lot worse than Risperdal and Klonopin. At least, not without going to things like Haloperidol and Thorazine (or general anesthesia), and I don't think they're going to find a pediatrician to prescribe those.

Probably has something to do with the weight problem too-- Risperdal is sort of notorious for that. It both screws up your metabolism, causing weight gain, and makes you hungry all the time. If nobody warned you about the issue, someone deserves to be shot. Not literally.

I guess they can up his dose-- I wonder if the school will be happier if he's constantly falling asleep in his seat, or if they'll just blame you for not getting him to bed early enough.

Sorry-- I have an emotional issue with Risperdal after the state of West Virginia tried to kill me with it. It's not stuff to play with lightly, or for personal convenience, or really for any reason other than hallucinations or severe, unprovolked, violence. I swear, I'm not judging you-- YOU are obviously doing the best you can in a difficult situation. As for the school-- I'd like to see THEM do six weeks on that cocktail, and THEN (after they get their heads cleared out enough to communicate clearly) come back and talk to you about how to handle your kid.

What part of Kentucky are you in?? Not that it makes much difference, unless you happen to be near someone I know and I might be able to get you a recommendation for some better help. It's really hard to find people that are intelligent about ASD. I had to move to Pittsburgh to actually get any help; I still have to tell my cousins down home that no, they really are better off to hide and deal with it themselves if they can (the last wonderful episode was that some idiot tried to kill my cousin with Celexa, Abilify, Zyprexa, Xanax, Lithium, Depakote, Seroquel, and a couple of others, all over what started out as PPD and ended up as medication-induced psychosis, borderline catatonia, and a whole bunch of other stuff).

I knew about the Risperdal food cravings, but he already had an eating issue before that. When he was 2 he was anemic and they put him on iron and since then he has been eating like crazy but that is also around the time that I knew something just wasn't right. It was right after he turned 2.

I know this is going to sound a bit stupid but here goes...
and ps - I've often been told that I sound like I'm sending military orders... these are all just suggestions, please take them as such!

1) next time school principal calls and says son hurt another kid "for no reason"... Tell principal to hold your kid in his office, then GO to the school, and meet with principal and with your son. In front of principal, ask your son why son hurt other kid. Results: (a) shows the principal that he needs to ask not assume. (b) your son just answered, without any coaching. (c) if the principal doesn't believe kid's side of story, ask if school has monitors, cameras, responsable teachers supervising the children - especially those, like your son, who are being targetted.

2) Get your son to write up a list of the worst ten bullies. Bring it to your son's teacher. Explain that your son is not a violent kid, and exactly why he responds as he does (he is being attacked, and has no other solution available than retaliation, since there is no governing body present when it happens.) Ask the teacher what she, you, and the rest of the staff can do about reducing bullying at their school, now, before it escalates to something destructive. Suggest that "these ten kids" are the worst offenders, and need to be supervised around ANY of the other kids who are routinely in "tussles". Results: Hopefully the school will start a "violence mediation" group for the kids who most often get into fights. Even if they then stick your kid in this group (wrongly) your kid will not only possibly gain the other kids' respect in a way (yeah twisted way but still), your son may also get to see reasons why these kids are the way they are and see himself in a whole new light, in comparaison, and determine that he really wants to avoid being classified alongside them.... meaning he'll work harder at being inconspicuous in the future.

3) Tell your son to avoid being alone with these ten kids. Explain "proactive behaviour" to him. Ask him if there are other kids who are picked on too, especially if they are picked on by the same bullies. Your son might not know any at first - but get him to think about it, and start looking for it, and writing down the names of other "victims". Results: (A) this will teach your son he is not the only one being singled out. (b) Your son might band together with these other kids and avoid personal independant attacks (c) He can see how other kids deal with attacks (and determine if he respects the response). (d) once you are satisfied with the "victims" list, do something about it - whether that be going to the teacher/principal (if they have been receptive to other advances) or going to the parents of these other victims and discussing a GROUP solution to the problem. Because chances are you aren't alone - and that some of the other parents probably don't even know about it.

4) Point out to son why exactly he's getting in trouble and the others are not. He might be smart, but we all have a blind spot when things are this close to the present. Give him the hindsight 20/20 now by asking "why dont the other kids get in trouble as much as you do" and if he doesnt have the answer tell him! They go FIND a teacher after the event, even if one isnt around. They have the system figured out. And that is why they keep bothering you, because they know that you don't have the system figured out.

Prolly other ideas to be had but I'm a bit stressed at the moment and my thinker just shut down.

We live in a very small town. I just found out today that his teacher is the teacher that the other teachers kids get put in. She's the one everyone wants, but that teacher is just his homeroom teacher. This year they started a 4 block schedule, so my son actually has 4 different teachers in 2nd grade. Sounds crazy to me. 3rd grade they only have one which is at a different school. This counties school system is so bad that they shutdown one of the school systems and combined them into this one this year. As for private school there is no other schools here. There is one Christian school but it would be a 30 min drive everyday to take him there and he can only go there until 5th grade. That's as far as they teach.

I know this may sound a little odd but you might tell him to be the instigator. The way the justice model works is that only the ones who get caught get punished. The instigator never get's caught because the action is unprovoked and unexpected, there is no reason to be observing him. Let's say your son got pinched. he probably said "ouch" a keyword that gets the teacher's attention, just in time for her to see him pinching another child for no discernible reason.

I he were to reverse the situation, the other student would be seen as being at fault and you might be able to argue that he needs to be moved / is violating your son's IEP.

On the other hand while that might work it's probably not a good idea to teach your son to be the bully. It also would not translate to situations with security cameras as a lifelong skill.

Part of the problem with bullies is that the little psychopaths tend to also be high on the social ladder and have social capital to expend or utilize to change the situation. Other kids will side with them over the lower ranking kid even if they know they are lying. Kids (and quite frankly they don't grow out of this) take perverse pleasure in seeing someone unpopular be picked on. They feel powerful vicariously.

EDIT: Previous suggestion is much better in terms of solving the problem rather than escalating, but mine is more cathartic, up to you!

"son why do you hit them?"
"because they hit me first."
"does hitting them back fix the problem in the long term?"
"yes/sometimes/not really"

And sometimes it will work. I know from personal experience that sometimes you do need to fight back, to show you aren't the wimp who will put up with the abuse. But she mentioned that her kid is strong - so they are likely picking on him not because he's the wimp but because he's the one they can get in trouble. It's a social hierarchy move, even if they don't understand it in those terms.

She's got to deal with the teachers and principal. My previous post was suggestions mainly on how to do it that way, and keep her kid out of trouble with the authority figures. Because stronger kids ARE dealt with differently, and considered the troublemakers by default - which, again, is why the other kids are getting away with all this posturing crap.

If it goes on, Mum's gonna have to eventually give her kid "the talk".
The talk meaning that she's going to have to instill the base rule of the playground: Don't ever hit first, but hit back as hard as you got.
I waited until grade 10 to follow this rule. And can't count how many days I skipped school over those years to avoid being beat up. Because when it escalates to the point where it affects your schooling, and the authorities are too lax to take care of it properly, showing that you aren't a punching bag - or at least that the bag swings back - is the only way to do it.

But for now, what's the matter with being a tattletale? Does it denegrate the child in the teachers' eyes? Well hell get that on record and send the kid out with boxing gloves tomorrow morning.

One strategy we tried with my son, who understood that telling a teacher or adult actually rarely helps, was to teach him to go away from the person bullying him, stand as near an adult as possible, and loudly say "I DON'T LIKE THAT. PLEASE STOP THAT. PLEASE DON'T ______________ ME ANY MORE."

Most of the adults are well aware that they're supposed to be monitoring this sort of behavior and will help, but this short-circuits the whole "tattletale" problem that you run into when your kid isn't savvy enough to tell the difference between accidental and purposeful touch (my son couldn't - so would often lash out at innocent kids and let kids who were actually deliberately prodding him go.)

Also, Alex made a series of videos that are stickied at the top of the opening page of this website - one of them is on bullying. My son found that very helpful - but he was a 4th grader when we tried that. Not sure if that strategy will work on younger kids.

I'm not really a fan of bully-proofing, but until you have the school on your side, these are things to try. Your second strategy is document, document, document. Every day your child comes home, have him report to you what happened. (You can make it into a game that isn't focused on negatives: who did nice/silly/funny things today? who did things that the teacher liked? who did things that bothered you and what were those things?) Write an email to the teacher about every incident that involves something you think is bullying. Make an email folder on your computer for all your emails and all the teacher's and school's responses - make sure you keep the tone matter-of-fact, and approach it like you're trying to problem-solve, not like you're trying to accuse anyone of anything.

This folder will become a body of evidence to take up the chain of command at your school. It's their responsibility to follow up on what's going on, especially with a child who has a known disability and who is specifically vulnerable in this way.

Regarding your son "being at fault" it's all a matter of perspective. If you're a school administrator, you may see the problem as, "this school would be fine, if he wasn't here." And that may even be accurate. But by the same token, one could probably say that the problem wouldn't be there if kids were more nice, or if the school made an effort to educate children about ASDs and expose them to your son in positive contexts.

In actuality these things are very complex. Your son probably did something at some point to stand out, or possibly even annoyed or hurt someone, or many people. In that way he may have provoked things. Then again, he probably didn't know any better, and with the right guidance, things could have turned out differently (and probably still can). Similarly, if the other kids had been more sensitive to your sons needs and difficulties, they may have forgiven his missteps and not created a problem, instead they were probably left to figure it out on their own, and they probably labeled him as a "bad" kid. And then the school officials probably didn't do enough to fix the situation. And so then you probably wound up with a cycle, where the kids teased or shunned or hurt your kid, and he fought back, and so-on.

So who's fault is it? I think that's too simple a question for the situation. The right question is what can we (adults, parents, school officials, teachers) do about it to change things? School officials have already laid their cards on the table for you by blaming your son or his home environment. That makes it easy for them to do nothing, and feel at ease with their own consciences. As a concerned parent, in this sort of situation, going to the school with humility and without malice may help to win them to your side, and show them that you are trying and are open to their suggestions, but that you want to work together with them to really solve this problem. Ask for input on what you could be doing at home to foster the changes that are happening at school, and then ask what they will be doing in the school to fix the situation. Make it clear that you want to work with them as a team.

They've got a problem and you can be there as an ally problem solver, rather than an opponent. I know this is harder to do than to say. It takes a lot of restraint to be kind and civil with people who may have been uncaring, and judgmental to your son or to you, But I think it's the best approach to handling this sort of thing. At least it's a good place to start. Try to document everything too, so if things go downhill, you've got a paper trail showing how you got there.