24 Sep 2010, 10:17 pm
Robdemanc wrote:
I live in England. And I could gaurantee that if I went out walking down the street in the centre of town with a balaclava on I would be stopped by police and told to remove it. I cannot go into a bank or some bars with a hat on! People have been asked to take hoods of inside shops!
Do you think that's normal? While in England I was asked in a pub to take off my hat. It was a pill box type of hat which was barely covering the top of my head, while my face was entirely visible
. If it's cold, I like to cover cover my nose with my scarf, will this become illegal too?
25 Sep 2010, 5:55 am
Sallamandrina wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
I live in England. And I could gaurantee that if I went out walking down the street in the centre of town with a balaclava on I would be stopped by police and told to remove it. I cannot go into a bank or some bars with a hat on! People have been asked to take hoods of inside shops!
Do you think that's normal? While in England I was asked in a pub to take off my hat. It was a pill box type of hat which was barely covering the top of my head, while my face was entirely visible
. If it's cold, I like to cover cover my nose with my scarf, will this become illegal too?I have been asked to remove my hat in a bar and I know others who have too. I think in cold weather we would be able to cover up but not inside a building.
25 Sep 2010, 6:06 am
Robdemanc wrote:
Sallamandrina wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
I live in England. And I could gaurantee that if I went out walking down the street in the centre of town with a balaclava on I would be stopped by police and told to remove it. I cannot go into a bank or some bars with a hat on! People have been asked to take hoods of inside shops!
Do you think that's normal? While in England I was asked in a pub to take off my hat. It was a pill box type of hat which was barely covering the top of my head, while my face was entirely visible
. If it's cold, I like to cover cover my nose with my scarf, will this become illegal too?I have been asked to remove my hat in a bar and I know others who have too. I think in cold weather we would be able to cover up but not inside a building.
Well - do you find this OK? It never happened to me anywhere else in Europe and personally I see no reason to accept it. Next they might ask me to take off my shirt
25 Sep 2010, 6:51 am
Master_Pedant wrote:
The theologically ultraliberal Canadian Muslim Congress has an interesting stance on wearing the burka in public:
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20091008.html
The Canadian Secular Alliance, a bit more of a civilly libertarian organization, disagrees.
The Canadian Muslim Congress seems to have shifted rather starkly in such an anti-anything other than ultraliberal Islam position ever since the Canadian Muslim Union (more moderately liberal Muslims) split from the organization (the Canadian Islamic Congress represents fundamentalist Muslims, by the way).
I agree with the Canadian Secular Alliance & not the Canadian Muslim Congress, by the way.
Canadian Muslim Congress wrote:
TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) is asking Ottawa to introduce legislation to ban the wearing of masks, niqabs and the burka in all public dealings.
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20091008.html
The Canadian Secular Alliance, a bit more of a civilly libertarian organization, disagrees.
Canadian Secular Alliance wrote:
What is the issue?
• Some Canadian public figures and organizations, including the Muslim Canadian Congress, have recently called on the government to ban certain forms of female Muslim dress. They argue that the niqab (face covering) and burka (full body covering) – for simplicity, collectively referred to herein as “the veil” – are an affront to Canada’s commitment to gender equality, and are psychologically and physically harmful to the wearer.
What is the CSA’s position on banning the veil?
• The CSA, as an organization advancing government neutrality in matters of religion, cannot support legal prohibition of the veil. The general view of the CSA is that:
(1) in the absence of a compelling reason to the contrary, no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by the state; and
(2) no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by their families, religious leaders, or cultural community.
• The CSA does not believe that the law is an instrument that can effectively address (2) while respecting Canadians’ fundamental rights and freedoms. Canadian law cannot shield a woman from non-violent influence exerted by others. Coercion involving violence or the threat of violence is already prohibited under the Criminal Code and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
• In short, the CSA supports both the right of women to wear the veil if they so choose, and the right of women not to wear the veil if they so choose. Instead of selectively banning some religious practices, our society should do more to ensure that girls and women in religious communities are aware of their rights as Canadians, and do more to support and enable them to exit a religious community should they so choose.
• Some Canadian public figures and organizations, including the Muslim Canadian Congress, have recently called on the government to ban certain forms of female Muslim dress. They argue that the niqab (face covering) and burka (full body covering) – for simplicity, collectively referred to herein as “the veil” – are an affront to Canada’s commitment to gender equality, and are psychologically and physically harmful to the wearer.
What is the CSA’s position on banning the veil?
• The CSA, as an organization advancing government neutrality in matters of religion, cannot support legal prohibition of the veil. The general view of the CSA is that:
(1) in the absence of a compelling reason to the contrary, no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by the state; and
(2) no person should be forced to comply with a dress code imposed by their families, religious leaders, or cultural community.
• The CSA does not believe that the law is an instrument that can effectively address (2) while respecting Canadians’ fundamental rights and freedoms. Canadian law cannot shield a woman from non-violent influence exerted by others. Coercion involving violence or the threat of violence is already prohibited under the Criminal Code and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
• In short, the CSA supports both the right of women to wear the veil if they so choose, and the right of women not to wear the veil if they so choose. Instead of selectively banning some religious practices, our society should do more to ensure that girls and women in religious communities are aware of their rights as Canadians, and do more to support and enable them to exit a religious community should they so choose.
The Canadian Muslim Congress seems to have shifted rather starkly in such an anti-anything other than ultraliberal Islam position ever since the Canadian Muslim Union (more moderately liberal Muslims) split from the organization (the Canadian Islamic Congress represents fundamentalist Muslims, by the way).
I agree with the Canadian Secular Alliance & not the Canadian Muslim Congress, by the way.
I agree with the CSA too. Surely the government telling people they can't wear things is just as bad as religion telling people what they have to wear anyway?
25 Sep 2010, 11:43 am
Sallamandrina wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Sallamandrina wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
I live in England. And I could gaurantee that if I went out walking down the street in the centre of town with a balaclava on I would be stopped by police and told to remove it. I cannot go into a bank or some bars with a hat on! People have been asked to take hoods of inside shops!
Do you think that's normal? While in England I was asked in a pub to take off my hat. It was a pill box type of hat which was barely covering the top of my head, while my face was entirely visible
. If it's cold, I like to cover cover my nose with my scarf, will this become illegal too?I have been asked to remove my hat in a bar and I know others who have too. I think in cold weather we would be able to cover up but not inside a building.
Well - do you find this OK? It never happened to me anywhere else in Europe and personally I see no reason to accept it. Next they might ask me to take off my shirt
I find it a bit odd that in bars they want you to remove your hat but I don't mind doing it. It may be a problem if someone wears a hat to cover up a disfigurment or baldness or something then it might upset them and the bar would be in the wrong. Maybe they think hats are intimidating to the other customers?? Who knows.
28 Sep 2010, 3:51 pm
28 Sep 2010, 4:36 pm
Robdemanc wrote:
I reckon all western countries should have a law that requires the face to be visible in public at all times unless it is for health and safety reasons (like a motorbike helmet).
Move to Sweden and go out when it's -35 not including the wind chill factor and then say that. I bet you won't, you'll be saying "that burka looks nice and warm, where can I get I one?"
28 Sep 2010, 5:17 pm
28 Sep 2010, 10:03 pm
28 Sep 2010, 11:14 pm
29 Sep 2010, 4:11 am
29 Sep 2010, 7:12 am
29 Sep 2010, 9:38 am
29 Sep 2010, 9:39 am
29 Sep 2010, 3:03 pm
29 Sep 2010, 4:54 pm
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