Anybody here have been through a 'racist' phase?

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Kraichgauer
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01 Aug 2013, 11:45 pm

Kurgan wrote:
I'm from a highly racist country (the nordic countries are the most racist ones in Europe apart from Russia), but I've never gone through a racist phase. I can understand it if someone who lost their loved ones in 9/11 are bigoted against arabs or if black South Africans don't like white people, but I never approve of racism.


Nordic countries are racist? I always thought of Scandinavians as rather open minded people. :?

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Dox47
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02 Aug 2013, 1:40 am

Eh, the closest I get to actual racism is the mental groans I make when foreigners of any color come into the restaurant I work in, as I know that I'm going to have to listen to the servers complain if they don't tip or tip poorly, which is usually. My boss has actually started just auto-grating them, which helps some, but it still pisses everyone off when we work our asses off to please someone and they still stiff us, cultural ignorance or not. It was worse when I worked front of the house myself, every person who's ever done service work has become at least a little bit racist, at least for a few minutes after getting shafted by someone of a different ethnicity than themselves, or sometimes even the same one.

Fun trick: if you ever want to learn new and innovative racial slurs and you work at a restaurant, seat a large and cheap looking group of people in the section of a waiter of the same ethnicity, then hang out in the kitchen to hear them venting; I guarantee, you'll hear terms of abuse you'd never even dreamed of before.

I also used to believe in stereotypes to a larger extent than I do now, due to having been placed in one of those unfortunate social experiments where they put the only gifted program in the school district in the middle of the poorest and most violent neighborhood in the city, in this case the black neighborhood. I guess the idea was that some sort of "cross pollination" would take place, where as the actual and completely predictable result was a school that was fractured on racial and socioeconomic lines that fought constantly and viciously. Having only that very negative personal experience to go on for some years, I didn't have a very high opinion of black culture, though I never got to the point of actually hating or being suspicious of black people. Thankfully, I got over that.

Finally, I had a period of flirtation with hipster racism, or "ironic" pseudo-racism as the case was, though that was always a very private joke between me and some close friends. That's one of those things that I regard as social edge play; funny if you do it right, but really easy to fall off and make an ass of yourself; I was always working with a safety net, as having a black girlfriend/spouse makes you pretty much race card proof, especially to other white people.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Aug 2013, 2:17 am

Dox47 wrote:
Eh, the closest I get to actual racism is the mental groans I make when foreigners of any color come into the restaurant I work in, as I know that I'm going to have to listen to the servers complain if they don't tip or tip poorly, which is usually. My boss has actually started just auto-grating them, which helps some, but it still pisses everyone off when we work our asses off to please someone and they still stiff us, cultural ignorance or not. It was worse when I worked front of the house myself, every person who's ever done service work has become at least a little bit racist, at least for a few minutes after getting shafted by someone of a different ethnicity than themselves, or sometimes even the same one.

Fun trick: if you ever want to learn new and innovative racial slurs and you work at a restaurant, seat a large and cheap looking group of people in the section of a waiter of the same ethnicity, then hang out in the kitchen to hear them venting; I guarantee, you'll hear terms of abuse you'd never even dreamed of before.

I also used to believe in stereotypes to a larger extent than I do now, due to having been placed in one of those unfortunate social experiments where they put the only gifted program in the school district in the middle of the poorest and most violent neighborhood in the city, in this case the black neighborhood. I guess the idea was that some sort of "cross pollination" would take place, where as the actual and completely predictable result was a school that was fractured on racial and socioeconomic lines that fought constantly and viciously. Having only that very negative personal experience to go on for some years, I didn't have a very high opinion of black culture, though I never got to the point of actually hating or being suspicious of black people. Thankfully, I got over that.

Finally, I had a period of flirtation with hipster racism, or "ironic" pseudo-racism as the case was, though that was always a very private joke between me and some close friends. That's one of those things that I regard as social edge play; funny if you do it right, but really easy to fall off and make an ass of yourself; I was always working with a safety net, as having a black girlfriend/spouse makes you pretty much race card proof, especially to other white people.


I have never heard of hipster "ironic" psuedo-racism before.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Dox47
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02 Aug 2013, 3:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I have never heard of hipster "ironic" psuedo-racism before.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It usually involves making patently ridiculous over the top racist statements as a way of mocking actual racists, but like said, it's a high risk strategy.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Aug 2013, 4:09 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have never heard of hipster "ironic" psuedo-racism before.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It usually involves making patently ridiculous over the top racist statements as a way of mocking actual racists, but like said, it's a high risk strategy.


Okay, gotcha.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Aug 2013, 2:38 pm

I don't think it's a big deal if you aren't hurting other people. Thought crimes should not exist.



albedo
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03 Aug 2013, 3:04 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Eh, the closest I get to actual racism is the mental groans I make when foreigners of any color come into the restaurant I work in, as I know that I'm going to have to listen to the servers complain if they don't tip or tip poorly, which is usually. My boss has actually started just auto-grating them, which helps some, but it still pisses everyone off when we work our asses off to please someone and they still stiff us, cultural ignorance or not. It was worse when I worked front of the house myself, every person who's ever done service work has become at least a little bit racist, at least for a few minutes after getting shafted by someone of a different ethnicity than themselves, or sometimes even the same one.


Personally I'm against tipping culture, especially the system you have stateside. I just think it causes too many issues and rubs people up the wrong way, and highlight that they aren't really paying people properly.

I read an article that more and more restaurant in the US are switching away from tipping.

Even countries that have a tipping culture, don't generally have it to the extent you have in the US, except of course developing countries, where tipping culture is basically a form of begging or 'hawking'.

A better system is a an optional charge with you can take off (often variable), and add to if necessary. I have only taken it off twice, in extreme circumstances. It is necessary to have that option, so people don't think they can get way with poor service and still get a reward.


Also it is more confusing than you think, in the UK we effectively tip certain professions, and less so others, so it is not totally obvious when we should be tipping. I think any policy should be clearly stated.

When you guys come over generally they you are generous tippers, and that is appreciated.

Also a system where you pay an establishment to make tips, it pretty much unheard of here. The closest thing would be an agency, where you are actually charging for services directly.



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03 Aug 2013, 11:38 pm

albedo wrote:
I read an article that more and more restaurant in the US are switching away from tipping.


Don't know where you read that, but don't count on it. I see more and more businesses switching to tipping. The greedy rich bastards that run them, don't what to pay their employees s**t. Decades ago I never saw tip jars in fast food restaurants. Now they are standard.



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04 Aug 2013, 12:41 am

Most people are racist at one point or another but its usually temporary like if they have had a bad experience with someone of another ethnic group and they call that person by a racial slur they may not always mean it but when people get mad the can be nasty. Another factor is out of humor usuing steriotypical jokes but one must be careful not to offend another and if so out of humor one must make fun of himself as a race at times. Take the chappelle show for example a lot of his skits may seem rather racist towards white people etc but its not out of hatred its out of making fun he makes fun of his own group as well. Its all out of simple cheap humor maybe not the wisest way for most because it can offend and hurt others feelings though.


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albedo
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04 Aug 2013, 4:51 am

Max000 wrote:
albedo wrote:
I read an article that more and more restaurant in the US are switching away from tipping.


Don't know where you read that, but don't count on it. I see more and more businesses switching to tipping. The greedy rich bastards that run them, don't what to pay their employees sh**. Decades ago I never saw tip jars in fast food restaurants. Now they are standard.


Ok, that is unfortunate, this was an article of well to do restaurants in major city switching. It it probably a murmur, but might set a president, who knows?

It was also due to clash of cultures especially Japanese where tipping is rude. So good sushi joints explicitly state no tips.



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04 Aug 2013, 10:41 pm

albedo wrote:
Max000 wrote:
albedo wrote:
I read an article that more and more restaurant in the US are switching away from tipping.


Don't know where you read that, but don't count on it. I see more and more businesses switching to tipping. The greedy rich bastards that run them, don't what to pay their employees sh**. Decades ago I never saw tip jars in fast food restaurants. Now they are standard.


Ok, that is unfortunate, this was an article of well to do restaurants in major city switching. It it probably a murmur, but might set a president, who knows?

It was also due to clash of cultures especially Japanese where tipping is rude. So good sushi joints explicitly state no tips.


Japanese restaurants could be the one exception, but even there is resistance to their no-tipping policies. Most Americans are more then happy to give a very generous tip for good service. It's just the greedy rich SOBs that own the places, that are the problem. You couldn't take a sledge hammer and bash those motherf***ers in the head hard enough to make them open their wallets and pay their employees a decent wage.

:arrow: Tip 15, 20 or 25 Percent? Here, They Strongly Suggest Zero



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05 Aug 2013, 3:56 am

Max000 wrote:
It's just the greedy rich SOBs that own the places, that are the problem. You couldn't take a sledge hammer and bash those f**** in the head hard enough to make them open their wallets and pay their employees a decent wage


Clearly, you've never worked in a restaurant.


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albedo
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05 Aug 2013, 1:57 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
It's just the greedy rich SOBs that own the places, that are the problem. You couldn't take a sledge hammer and bash those f**** in the head hard enough to make them open their wallets and pay their employees a decent wage


Clearly, you've never worked in a restaurant.


Well I do know it is a difficult business to break through, and many go out of business every year, certainly not all owner are raking it in. Most aren't.

I do stand with what I say with tipping culture. I have seen to taken to extreme in places like India. It just isn't a good system at all.

It is better to put service on the bill, even if it is optional an variable. It is better to have an explicit policy in an establishment.



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27 Jun 2014, 7:58 am

No, I've never been through a racist phase. Don't know if it has to do with the fact that I am mixed race. But if it is just a phase for most people, that would be really hopeful.
I hate so called 'rational racists'. They're all over youtube and other public websites where they can remain anonymous. When you confront them with their behaviours they will get personal and say things like: "those stupid black women", or "you crazy asian man" and when you try to argument them they get offensive and use ad hominems all over the place. Yet they deny that they are racists or that their comments display racist thoughts/beliefs. It just really strikes me that people can act so obviously racist yet deny that they are racist or anything that comes close.
If find those so called 'rational racists' are the worst. Hypocricy at its purest if you ask me.



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27 Jun 2014, 10:35 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have never heard of hipster "ironic" psuedo-racism before.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It usually involves making patently ridiculous over the top racist statements as a way of mocking actual racists, but like said, it's a high risk strategy.


Over here it usually involves cracking the same jokes as old-school comedians (like Bernard Manning) but being a young person with a cool haircut and an obscure taste in beer whilst doing it. A sort of 'I can't be racist, I read the Guardian' type of thing - but racism over here is seen as something working class people do, so hipster think they're exempt from it.


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27 Jun 2014, 10:43 am

puddingmouse wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I have never heard of hipster "ironic" psuedo-racism before.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It usually involves making patently ridiculous over the top racist statements as a way of mocking actual racists, but like said, it's a high risk strategy.


Over here it usually involves cracking the same jokes as old-school comedians (like Bernard Manning) but being a young person with a cool haircut and an obscure taste in beer whilst doing it. A sort of 'I can't be racist, I read the Guardian' type of thing - but racism over here is seen as something working class people do, so hipster think they're exempt from it.


There are some good Paki jokes out there, but most of them are just offensive and not very good. Scouser jokes fare better, but they run along the same theme with the same punchline. I like a good Irish joke, but even they get a bit dull after a while. Same with Polish jokes and black jokes.

I liked Bernard Manning.

By the way - I just wanted you to know that I have lost a ton of weight. You won't recognise me if you see me.