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cyberdad
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19 Nov 2023, 6:15 pm

Ok I'm not American but quite clearly the former US war on drugs focused on US distributors and Columbian cartels.
So how come Mexican cartels were given a free pass back in the 1990s and 2000s?



naturalplastic
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19 Nov 2023, 7:00 pm

Thats a good question. Dont really have a good answer.

They did bring down the Mexican kingpin El Chapo.

But on the other hand the "war of drugs" was waged in a rather geographically inconsistant way. In those past decades Mexico was rather untouched while we sent law enforcement to Columbia (and finally killed Pablo Escobar).

And we even sent the military and did an Iraq style regime change on Panama to get rid of the narco dictator Noriega because Panama is a small easy target to take out with a PR invasion.

I do recall seeing a book author on C-span back in the 2000s talking about the insane stuff that went unchecked in Mexico (like gun battles between law enforcement agencies -those trying to enforce the law and those owned by the cartels-, and like a vast green rectangle in the Senora visible from space of irrigated pot farming land that no authority in either the US or Mexico ever touched). Cant remember the book title nor the author. He looked like a grizzeled cowboy.

Mexico is able to act like a sovereign country while Columbia was a semi failed state in the midst of decades long guerilla war AND had narco gangs. So it was so helpless that it couldnt refuse US help/meddling. Columbia was both a source and a conduit for both weed and coke. Mexico is a source for weed, but just a conduit for coke. So there are some legit differences as well that made Columbia higher priority...maybe. Or not.



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19 Nov 2023, 7:04 pm

Because it plays very well with racist voters to blame the brown people from across the Southern border than it does to point the finger at Americans' demand for hard drugs.

Why would an American politician ask Americans to self reflect on their drug use and maybe make an effort to fix their own problems when they can point the finger at some brown people in Mexico? It'd be political suicide.


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goldfish21
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19 Nov 2023, 7:06 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Ok I'm not American but quite clearly the former US war on drugs focused on US distributors and Columbian cartels.
So how come Mexican cartels were given a free pass back in the 1990s and 2000s?

Because the wealthy elite in the USA are a bunch of drug users themselves. They can't just go cut off their own supply. One public enemy to blame at a time while you form a strategic partnership with some other supplier to keep bringing you your nose candy under the radar.


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Dox47
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19 Nov 2023, 7:49 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
But then Trump commandeered the GOP and took it in a nativist, xenophobic, racists, and isolationist, direction. And he still rules the GOP. So...no changing direction soon...even if all the other of their candidates can see that it is taking them off a cliff.


Ironically, Trump has pulled record numbers of non-white voters for a Republican, which is frankly hilarious in light of all the effort to paint him as some sort of giant racist (he seems about normal for his age to me). In some ways the shift of black and Latino men to the GOP has been a long time coming, both groups have a lot of conservative beliefs but having been relegated to the Dems for other reasons, but it is still funny that it would happen with Trump of all people.


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goldfish21
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19 Nov 2023, 8:19 pm

Dox47 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
But then Trump commandeered the GOP and took it in a nativist, xenophobic, racists, and isolationist, direction. And he still rules the GOP. So...no changing direction soon...even if all the other of their candidates can see that it is taking them off a cliff.


Ironically, Trump has pulled record numbers of non-white voters for a Republican, which is frankly hilarious in light of all the effort to paint him as some sort of giant racist (he seems about normal for his age to me). In some ways the shift of black and Latino men to the GOP has been a long time coming, both groups have a lot of conservative beliefs but having been relegated to the Dems for other reasons, but it is still funny that it would happen with Trump of all people.


Uuuh, no. trump has exhibited an abnormally high level of racism throughout his life. The trumps were in legal hot water for refusing to rent apartments to black people, donnie spent a bunch of money on front page ads to vilify the now Exonerated Five, he campaigned on blasting Mexican migrant workers and implemented a Muslim travel ban on several countries with input from (one of the) creepy looking white supremacist he hired into his administration… and on and on. That’s way above average levels of racism w t f.


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Dox47
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19 Nov 2023, 8:30 pm

Rent free.


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goldfish21
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19 Nov 2023, 8:36 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Rent free.

Just doing my part to set the record straight when some trump follower posts OBVIOUS deceit about who the guy is and what he's done. This is a crucial time in history when the world's biggest charlatan of all time has fooled 1/3rd of the population of the world's foremost super power.. everyone, world wide, has a responsibility to do their part to see that his reputation reflects reality, not what he says it is. Because he needs to be removed from public life - in office/business - and begin the long process of dying in jail for his crimes.


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19 Nov 2023, 8:36 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Rent free.


Goldfish was just reacting to a post of yours he disagreed with. That hardly means Trump lives rent free in his head, like Obama lives rent free in Trump's.


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goldfish21
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19 Nov 2023, 9:48 pm

Unfortunately the orange clown has been headline news for 8 years. Also unfortunate that he has influence over people and real life when he should just be ignored into obscurity besides some update news on his eventual incarceration.

Hoping the powers that be can just expedite this whole jailing of a criminal president thing, magas brains can all asplode at once, and the whole world can move on from this dark orange chapter in lunacy meets world politics.


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Dox47
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19 Nov 2023, 11:33 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Are you being disingenuous and can’t figure out why the biggest scam artist to ever live, who attempted a coup of the USA, is headline news? Or do you just not like that not everyone sees him via maga coloured glasses and can’t handle the orange leaderbean being criticized for his criminal conduct?


I'd remind you that I'm highly critical of Trump myself, but it doesn't seem to matter, nothing gets through to you.


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The_Walrus
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19 Nov 2023, 11:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Ok I'm not American but quite clearly the former US war on drugs focused on US distributors and Columbian cartels.
So how come Mexican cartels were given a free pass back in the 1990s and 2000s?

Because the wealthy elite in the USA are a bunch of drug users themselves. They can't just go cut off their own supply. One public enemy to blame at a time while you form a strategic partnership with some other supplier to keep bringing you your nose candy under the radar.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought cocaine (the drug of choice among the wealthy elite) tended to come from Colombia, while Mexico was more diversified, with large trades in opiates and meth as well as coke?

If your aim was to seem to blame someone while keeping your personal supply alive, wouldn't it make more sense to go after Mexico first, not Colombia?

Quote:
Why would an American politician ask Americans to self reflect on their drug use and maybe make an effort to fix their own problems when they can point the finger at some brown people in Mexico?

This is an even dumber point.

The US has hundreds of thousands of people in prison for drug offences. Safe to say that American politicians are not afraid to blame drug users, and that it's quite politically popular to do so.

Of course, blaming drug users is stupid. An opioid addiction isn't something you can just fix with a bit of effort, and it also doesn't tend to be something that people just pick up for a laugh.



goldfish21
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19 Nov 2023, 11:48 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Ok I'm not American but quite clearly the former US war on drugs focused on US distributors and Columbian cartels.
So how come Mexican cartels were given a free pass back in the 1990s and 2000s?

Because the wealthy elite in the USA are a bunch of drug users themselves. They can't just go cut off their own supply. One public enemy to blame at a time while you form a strategic partnership with some other supplier to keep bringing you your nose candy under the radar.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought cocaine (the drug of choice among the wealthy elite) tended to come from Colombia, while Mexico was more diversified, with large trades in opiates and meth as well as coke?

If your aim was to seem to blame someone while keeping your personal supply alive, wouldn't it make more sense to go after Mexico first, not Colombia?

Quote:
Why would an American politician ask Americans to self reflect on their drug use and maybe make an effort to fix their own problems when they can point the finger at some brown people in Mexico?

This is an even dumber point.

The US has hundreds of thousands of people in prison for drug offences. Safe to say that American politicians are not afraid to blame drug users, and that it's quite politically popular to do so.

Of course, blaming drug users is stupid. An opioid addiction isn't something you can just fix with a bit of effort, and it also doesn't tend to be something that people just pick up for a laugh.


USA has tons and tons of trade with Mexico. They rely on Mexico to manufacture a lot of products, send their people to do farm work etc. Columbia is much easier to blame for things and tell their people they’re doing something about - whether they actually do anything about it or not is another story.. considering how much coke Americans consume.


And :lol:

Black/brown/poor drug users go to jail and become prison labourers (legalized slavery), not wealthy elite white drug users.. if they get found out and there’s negative press, they go to some big $$$ rehab facility.


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goldfish21
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20 Nov 2023, 3:23 am

The whole world wants that guy locked up and away from social media and cameras forever so we can have some sort of normalcy vs. letting him stir the pot of stochastic terrorism until he gets his cult followers to attack someone or someplace again.

Ideally judges in various jurisdictions would be competing to see who gets to lock him up pending trial so he's off the streets even sooner.


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goldfish21
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20 Nov 2023, 4:00 am

US politicians have been shaking their fists at Mexico to get their voters all riled up since the time of reefer madness. Hard to stray from a formula that continues to work nearly 100 years later.. blame those brown foreigners South of the border for stuff, it gets people energized to vote for their favourite bigoted politician.


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20 Nov 2023, 4:14 am

goldfish21 wrote:
The whole world wants that guy locked up and away from social media and cameras forever so we can have some sort of normalcy vs. letting him stir the pot of stochastic terrorism until he gets his cult followers to attack someone or someplace again.


Despite his numerous crimes he does post some Gold on social media, he is his own worst enemy and it's funny to read his gaffs plus he inspires so many funny memes, the guy was put on this earth to be mocked but you have to be very careful not to contract TDS , it's a very real and serious condition although not recognized by any authority but is considered a 'folk illness' alongside things such as burnout. :jester:


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