Did PC Wokeness Kill Comedy or Is Jerry Seinfeld Unfunny?

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I could list 100 shows that are being made today that are not trashy at all. There are even more than that. (I'm talking about scripted comedies and dramas, not reality shows, true crime, game shows, talk shows). TV shows include series that are on streaming services.

Regarding Seinfeld, I have never not liked his humor, but it's probably very generational. He and I are close in age and have seen the same events take place in our lives. I guess his humor is very much Boomer humor. Boomers liked to thumb their nose at traditional mores, for this reason Gen-Xers often don't think this sort of humor funny as their respect for authority is greater. Although I could also make a case that Seinfeld's humor was notably self aware, when considering his show's last episode, in which it was revealed that the characters were an unlikable group that deserved no sympathy from the rest of society. If Boomers could see that in themselves, then that might explain why they "got" him and others didn't.

Seinfeld was also a product of the post war New York Jewish scene. His point of view may seem alien if you're not somewhat familiar with that. For a long time, my best friend was a Jew from Brooklyn and I had a lot of exposure to that. But there was always going to be a lot of Americans who wouldn't get the point.

As happens whenever anyone makes a comment about 'woke', what's actually said and how it's presented in both right and left leaning media is not the same thing.

As it happens I think Jerry is both right and wrong.

He wasn't bashing modern comedians for being left-wing or woke, which is how this has been portrayed. What he said was that a modern sit-com, for example, has to go through several rounds of approval that have nothing to do with how funny it is and everything to do with not anything that might cause a group of people offence.

That's true. That does happen.

You can call that a 'woke agenda' if you believe that is a real thing but this is where I differ from Seinfeld. I think it's a purely commercial consideration, the only agenda is to maximise returns in a media landscape that's very different from the one that his sitcom performed so well in. People have so many excuses to turn off now, or find something else to watch that the risks involved in alienating any section of the audience are greater.

And that is a problem because it does result in watered-down comedy that seeks to appeal to the lowest common denominator, almost by design.

Personally, I find comedy that defines itself by it's anti-wokeness as lazy and risible as comedy that treads too carefully. I don't think causing offence should be the reason to do anything but I do think that comedy has a role to play in questioning cultural ideologies and that's a healthy thing that should be allowed, even if you don't agree with the position being taken.

‘Seinfeld’ was hugely popular all over the country and still is via syndication. Cultural Ashkenazi Jewish influenced comedy has been popular going back to The Three Stooges.

Personally while I liked the show I never thought it was great like so many.

Ever notice how comedy "is dead" to some people the minute they're not the core audience? Who are these people insisting comedy is dead just because they don't like the jokes? It's like declaring McDonalds is dead because they stopped serving the Arch Deluxe and I don't want to have to get used to a Big N Tasty.

You know, I used to know a guy who was really a fan of the McDLT, terrible person. He once threw a huge tantrum quitting his job on Friday, went back in on Monday like nothing happened.

You also have to be over 30 to remember when Bill wasn't a sell out.

I remember during I love the 90s the comment that if you wanted to chuckle, you watched Seinfeld. If you wanted to laugh your butt off, you watched Martin.

The big thing that Seinfeld did was have the way for shows to feature terrible people in the starring roles.

I never "got Seinfeld" and I still don't, after trying to watch a couple of episodes, it didn't register with me. Maybe it's the east coast/New York humor I don't get but also I found the people on the show to be shallow and strange.

I think he was always this way but because of changing times it is more noticeable and what he has always opposed is more prominent on the left now so that is the side he goes after more now.

He is at an age where he should have aged out a long time ago but he has not I think because

1. Usually when people try and mix serious discussion of controversial issues with comedy it comes off as awkward but he has the skill to switch smoothly.

2. There is a underserved audience for the “politically homeless” that are anti-MAGA and anti-woke that he fills

3. His guests come from all over the political spectrum and are a mixture of people who talk about politics for a living and celebrities. We are a celebrity obsessed culture.

Jerry Seinfeld was very popular then the world moved on and his kind of humour became outdated. He is bitter and blames the world. There are a lot of popular comedians out there today that are much more edgy than Jerry ever was so he can't blame his failure on wokeness or political correctness.

The WP software has gone woke and refuses to allow Trumpesque capitalisation. I wish Truth Social would do that to Trump. Can't you just use bold and italics?

I've always felt Seinfield's humour to be somewhat weak, and I didn't know about his political claims till I read about them here, though I can't prove that. He should try harder to amuse me.

Right-wing wokeness killed comedy when somebody on Radio 4 commented, after Nigel Farage had been targeted with milkshakes, "why bother with a milkshake when you could get some battery acid?” Radio 4 hasn't aired anything that funny since.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... 4-says-bbc

Comedy is one of my special interests. Wit, in particular, is very important to me, I think much more than it is to most people.

I believe in the “Equal Opportunity Offender” concept of comedy.

“I don't want to offend anyone. I want to offend everyone.”

-- Tracey Ullman

I think no topic should be off limits. If somebody says, “That's too serious. You can't joke about that.” then that's the topic that needs to be joked about the most.

I like comedy mainly because it's funny. Recently, elsewhere on WP, someone said [paraphrasing] that our interests are sometimes considered unusual by NTs because we are interested in the thing itself, rather than the social rewards that come from engaging with it. Some people on social media seem to view comedy as a weapon, its sole purpose to attack their political enemies. "What if all the absurdity is on one side?" I once saw someone say. (It was the side he wasn't on.)

I don't like stereotyping, unless it's self-aware, (like when “Family Guy” plays on stereotypes.) If it's not self-aware, it's usually lazy comedy anyway. The bigoted equivalent of a fart joke. However, I don't agree with the idea that when a comedian tells a joke, you're supposed to pull out a chart of the intricate hierarchy of society and figure out where the comedian is and where the target is to determine whether or not you're allowed to find it funny. (The “Punching Up/Punching Down” concept of comedy. )

I read a rundown on Seinfeld's interview and other than the buzz-wordy quoted line, it sounds like he's mostly concerned with corporate committees watering down comedy, which is something I think comedians have always been concerned with. My more cynical side wonders if all of these kinds of comments are just scripted by Hollywood PR to stir up publicity. Also, I think in today's polarized political climate, comedians “pick a side” in order to secure a built-in audience. I bet if Seinfeld had said the opposite, the people who are now saying he's an unfunny has-been would say he's an expert on comedy and vice-versa.

DuckHairback sums it up well:

Sitcoms like “Seinfeld,” “The Simpsons” and later “South Park” and “Family Guy” were partly a response to the family sitcoms that were popular in the 80s and early 90s, which at their worst, could be very sappy and preachy. Larry David had a rule for writing “Seinfeld” – “no hugging and no learning” for the characters. (For some time, I would have associated getting offended at that type of comedy with the Right, not the Left.) Today, I think some people who may be unaware of that context are rebelling against that kind of comedy by wanting things to be sappy and preachy again. (Mostly preachy, though they wouldn't use those terms.)

People who prefer older comedy are often told that only immoral people who enjoy seeing the marginalized put down would feel that way. To me, this is the secular equivalent of a Conservative Christian responding to any criticism with “Y'all just want to sin.”

I don't think comedy is dead. I do think there is a trend of comedy and entertainment/art/storytelling in general being misinterpreted on social media. Hollywood, in their zeal to expand their audience and make more money, seems to be tailoring their product directly to the misinterpreters, which leads to a poorer quality product.

One example of comedy being misinterpreted: I saw a comic about “The Most American Movie Ever.” One character says that it's “Ghostbusters” and proceeds to describe scenes where the characters haggle over money instead of being amazed by their supernatural discoveries. To which the other character in the comic says “Oh, my God,” as if this is an Earth-shattering revelation that re-contextualizes the entire movie. Whereas I say...yeah, that's the obvious joke of the movie. The guys facing the big supernatural threat aren't traditional heroes, they're comically flawed greedy schlubs who are in way over their heads. That's what makes the movie a comedy and not a supernatural thriller. This comic is explaining the joke as if it's meant to be serious – the reverse of satire.

Other examples: I once saw a person on Facebook claim that “Seinfeld's” famous “Soup Nazi” episode was responsible for de-sensitizing people to real-life Nazism. Another person claimed “The only thing funny about 'South Park' and 'Family Guy' is they think they're not 100% responsible for Neo-Fascism.”

However, for every sad take like that I see on social media, I see a brilliantly hilarious meme or YouTube video, which gives me a bit of hope for the future of comedy.

I still enjoy classic sitcoms. I'm not up on current sitcoms because I don't have cable. At one point, I tried to Google what sitcoms are currently popular and I just came up with a list of older sitcoms on streaming services. The last “new” sitcom I watched was the dreadful “Frasier” revival on Paramout+. It doesn't strike me as “woke” or “extreme Left,” but rather just a pale imitation of the original show. However, people on social media defend it the same way they defend more politicized modern comedies – by saying that the writing has “evolved” and “you just don't get it because you didn't evolve with it.” Or in other words, they think new things are always better than old things, because they just are.

An example where I think I did see comedy being neutered out of fear of offending someone: I used to like “Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.” Oliver picks a topic and examines it using humor. E.g., in his segment on “Scientific Studies,” he tells jokes about the the way that studies are often oversimplified and misrepresented to the general public. He's not saying scientific studies are bad, but poking fun at one absurd aspect of them. In his 28 minute segment on “Critical Race Theory,” professional comedian Oliver tells zero jokes about Critical Race Theory. He doesn't even tell a joke and then say, “LOL no, jk, CRT is perfect.” He does sprinkle in some tangential jokes, such as saying that sometimes CRT is taught incorrectly, but then joking that this is understandable because teachers have to deal with the audience's kids' behavior. But no humor about the actual topic of the video. This tells me that Oliver, or someone involved in the show, is terrified of offending the people who believe in CRT. I haven't watched the show much since then.

Last edited by vividgroovy on 02 May 2024, 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

If more people read was was actually said rather than what was reported, a whole manure heap of culture war 'debate' would never happen and the world (or at least the Internet) would be a healthier place.

I think the willingness to misreport or focus on a phrase that could be misinterpreted is now very much the deliberate intention of the media which measures its success on engagement (i.e. comments) rather than accuracy/interest. If you can start an argument you're doing great.

Yours was a good post in general, I thought.

#1 Seinfeld fan here (the show not the person)
I think it's funny Jerry's calling modern comedy restrained by wokeness when one of his most recognizable Seinfeld-ism was created carefully as not offend the gay community. "Not that there's anything wrong with that."
And with the recent release of "Unfrosted" (one of the most milquetoast, inoffensive things I've ever seen), I think it's fair to say "wokeness" isn't what's killing comedy.

Did PC wokeness kill comedy?

I would be inclined to say yes, but that would just play into the hands of those liberal leftists who claim that anyone who complains about PC wokeness "just wants to tell mean jokes and make fun of the vulnerable" - as if the only damage PC wokeness has ever done to society has been to the material put out by a few professional jesters.

It constantly amazes me how many young people these days can barely watch a sitcom that's a mere ten years old without getting offended by it. A lot of the old comedy that triggers so many young people today was never intended to be political at all, it's just that modern audiences have made it so.

I personally prefer comedy that's non-political, regardless of the political opinions of whoever produces it.

I'm certainly not much of a fan of modern comedy that markets itself as "anti-woke", because generally you can see the punchlines coming a mile off.

However, I find PC/woke comedy even worse. No doubt that's partly a result of my own biases. But I honestly don't see how so many people can sit and watch liberal leftist lectures masquerading as comedy and not feel insulted by it.

I find the likes of George Carlin or Stephen Colbert or the Daily Show insufferable, but I suppose their popularity helps explain the views of so many of the Americans on this sub-forum.

To my mind, the typical Stephen Colbert or Daily Show joke goes something like this.

"Look at what this conservative in Hicksville said the other day!"
<plays clip>
<camera cuts to the presenter as he makes a funny face>
<cue canned laughter>

But hey, there's no accounting for taste I suppose.

^I think George Carlin was funny.