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Kurgan
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11 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it's the same argument people use against feminists (that they are misandric). usually it isn't accurate.


The biggest feminist organization in Norway (Kvinnegruppa Ottar) is extremely hostile to both men and attractive women. They've been known to vandalize private sex shops, protest against the establishment of Hooters restaurants here in Norway, they generalize all men "as the same", compare pornography and strip clubs to forced prostitution, they ignore discrimination against men, they attack straw men, they never attack the core of a problem, they frequently mock REAL feminists and they frequently take stuff way out of context.

They never speak out against the forced use of the burqua in immigrants, honor killings or anything like that; they merely broadcast their bitter resentment for more attractive women and sexual dimorphism. I don't think it's a coincidence that I've never seen an attractive member of their organization.


Your criticism holds up until you imply that they're all ugly. Your personal opinion on their looks doesn't matter.


If they looked like a young Halle Berry, they wouldn't be radical misandrists.


I'm sure some of them look similar to celebrities that you personally find attractive, when said celebrities are not airbrushed and aren't wearing make-up or uncomfortable clothes.

I know a lot of 'attractive' women who don't like men. A lot of strippers don't, actually.


Halle Berry looks like this without makeup, even though she's in her mid 40's.

Image



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11 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Image


And?

I'm facially quite 'pretty' and I'm a radical feminist (though not as much as Halle Berry, admittedly). There's nothing in radical feminism that means you can't take care of your skin and complexion.


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hanyo
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11 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm

It could be that they are unattractive because they don't feel any need to pretty themselves up to please men. They could even consider doing that as bowing down to the patriarchy.



Kurgan
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11 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

Image


And?

I'm facially quite 'pretty' and I'm a radical feminist (though not as much as Halle Berry, admittedly). There's nothing in radical feminism that means you can't take care of your skin and complexion.


The leader of Ottar looks like this:

Image



edgewaters
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11 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm

ImjustRandom wrote:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/

Take a look if you want and i suggest anybody that does to look at all the details and think for yourself.

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!


All I see is futile resentment, frustration, and cynicism - a big emotional display. I was expecting to see a list of rights demanded, problems identified and solutions put across - that would be useful. Instead it's just a whole lot of emotional hysteria and visceral nonsense. It reads like a temper tantrum. So it's utterly useless, or worse.



puddingmouse
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11 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm

Kurgan wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

Image


And?

I'm facially quite 'pretty' and I'm a radical feminist (though not as much as Halle Berry, admittedly). There's nothing in radical feminism that means you can't take care of your skin and complexion.


The leader of Ottar looks like this:

Image


She doesn't look like Halle Berry, but I wouldn't call her ugly It's not a flatter photo or pose, tbh. I think you are wrong in your assumptions about why women become radical feminists. A lot of the nuttier ones do it because they suffered abuse by men, not because they don't look like actresses.


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Kurgan
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11 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm

edgewaters wrote:
ImjustRandom wrote:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/

Take a look if you want and i suggest anybody that does to look at all the details and think for yourself.

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!


All I see is futile resentment, frustration, and cynicism - a big emotional display. I was expecting to see a list of rights demanded, problems identified and solutions put across - that would be useful. Instead it's just a whole lot of emotional hysteria and visceral nonsense. It reads like a temper tantrum. So it's utterly useless, or worse.


In other words they're the male counterpiece to militant feminists—and like militant feminists, they don't give a damn about equality.



edgewaters
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11 Aug 2012, 1:23 pm

Kurgan wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
ImjustRandom wrote:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/

Take a look if you want and i suggest anybody that does to look at all the details and think for yourself.

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!


All I see is futile resentment, frustration, and cynicism - a big emotional display. I was expecting to see a list of rights demanded, problems identified and solutions put across - that would be useful. Instead it's just a whole lot of emotional hysteria and visceral nonsense. It reads like a temper tantrum. So it's utterly useless, or worse.


In other words they're the male counterpiece to militant feminists—and like militant feminists, they don't give a damn about equality.


Somewhat similar but a bit different ... even the most extreme wing of feminism has an agenda/plan of action. These guys just seem to be venting to no specific purpose.

What I'd prefer to see is feminism and the men's right movement go extinct in the face of an equality movement that spans everything, gender, class, race, everything. One that has a reasonable and moderate plan and vision of the future, and isn't taking any sides, just keeping its eye on the ball.



nick007
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11 Aug 2012, 6:36 pm

edgewaters wrote:
What I'd prefer to see is feminism and the men's right movement go extinct in the face of an equality movement that spans everything, gender, class, race, everything. One that has a reasonable and moderate plan and vision of the future, and isn't taking any sides, just keeping its eye on the ball.

Same here.

My 2nd girlfriend was a feminist & she thought I was too because I don't like gender discrimination or gender stereotypes. I'm pro-choice, support birth control, believe women should be paid the same amount as a man with equal experience & qualifications who does the exact same job & works at a compatible pace. However I've been called misogynist before because some women misinterpreted what I said on some forums or they disagreed with it. For example there was a debate on one forum about how women make less than men for the same job & I mentioned how some of it could be due to the benefits that the employers provide like maturity leave & health insurance; insurance companies charge more for women because they get certain services men don't because their parts are different. Another time I was called a misogynist because I said Miley Cyrus was a bad role model because she's slu*ty; watch how she dances in her concerts. I think terms like misogynist, feminist, & men's rights are pretty relative & can get twisted around in hate to mean very different things than what others mean.


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ImjustRandom
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11 Aug 2012, 6:39 pm

edgewaters wrote:
ImjustRandom wrote:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/

Take a look if you want and i suggest anybody that does to look at all the details and think for yourself.

I am pretty sure someone will call this misogyny/misogynist, IT IS NOT!


All I see is futile resentment, frustration, and cynicism - a big emotional display. I was expecting to see a list of rights demanded, problems identified and solutions put across - that would be useful. Instead it's just a whole lot of emotional hysteria and visceral nonsense. It reads like a temper tantrum. So it's utterly useless, or worse.


They do use a lot of sarcasm on that site and on their youtube videos.



mds_02
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11 Aug 2012, 7:28 pm

edgewaters wrote:
What I'd prefer to see is feminism and the men's right movement go extinct in the face of an equality movement that spans everything, gender, class, race, everything. One that has a reasonable and moderate plan and vision of the future, and isn't taking any sides, just keeping its eye on the ball.


This is exactly what I would like to see as well.


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11 Aug 2012, 8:01 pm

i third on that notion, most heartily

EDIT: fourth, actually


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 11 Aug 2012, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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11 Aug 2012, 8:08 pm

Kurgan, being against strippers does not equal being opposed to good looking women. the physical attributes of the strippers are not relevant to the point being made by the feminists.


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FunnyFaceKing
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12 Aug 2012, 8:49 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVcCZyhWcLY&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56Agy4bTv6Y&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]


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12 Aug 2012, 11:31 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
that's incorrect, so it makes me suspect the site. one of the sources he quoted for that assertion was not legitimate, and the other one didn't support his point.


As you may or may not have noticed, one source was an excerpt from the other. The estimated number of women forcibly penetrated during a 12-month period was said to be 1,270,000. The estimated number of men said to have been forced to penetrate was 1,267,000. That seems to make enough sense, although it did not measure correctly to support that claim. As there were no known figures on men being penetrated - which, admittedly, would not constitute reliable or proper figures as men are not subject to that in general terms - they used the definition for 'being forced to penetrate'. That could be considered rape.

that (bolded) does not equal nearly identical rates of rape or sexual assault for men and women, period. that is what the first article misrepresented and subsequent articles requoted. also, that study was only concerned with various types of assault and abuse between long term partners, not for men and women overall. the MRA article did not make any distinction whatsoever about that.

here are some actual facts from the original study. the penetration numbers you quoted do not exist on in these summaries, so i don't know where you got that from.

Image

it's worthy of noting that women are over 10 times more likely to be raped by a partner in their lifetime than a man is, which is so very different from what the article is claiming. the original article's misrepresentation is pretty blatant and makes me distrustful of the site, because they are trying to changing public policy by manufacturing facts.

one article is even tagged "lying feminist scumbags" yet this article is also lying. that isn't just bad journalism, it's a rallying cry based on a deliberate misrepresentation.

what is interesting is that the same misrepresentstion is quoted over and over again in blogs and in comments on feminist articles and youtube videos, yet not one of those people bothered to do any fact-checking. you would think that ONE of them would have flagged that original article's misleading information. but apparently not.

i agree that there are some areas that need an improvement in equality between men and women (though we may disagree about which specific areas), but the MRA movement isn't helping that cause.


It's impossible for there to be accurate statistics on rape, since the number of false claims is unknown but certainly very large while the number of unreported ass grabbings is certainly enormous.

MRA guys may tend to be knuckledragging idiots but there are a few nuggets of truth (yes, most women do take occasional advantage of being a woman to get things, etc.) I'm not saying that makes men better than women.



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12 Aug 2012, 11:40 pm

i agree that some women take advantage of being female. i suppose it is rather like men who take advantage of being male. both genders have specimens who are ruthless and who lack basic ethics, unfortunately. i don't think either gender has the upper (or lower) hand in terms of overall levels of shittiness.

i think the world would be a better place if people started thinking of others before acting and stopped thinking they have a right to _X_ because "everyone else has it by whatever means necessary, so why can't i?"


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