Secularization enables the growth of Islam.

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In that case you have served your purpose.



I wonder how that fits in with the forum rules.

1/3rd Then they have a lot of work to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Religion

Muslim covers a lot of very moderate people from places like Turkey, North Africa etc. I would much rather live in a country who's population was 1/3rd those people than 1/3rd your conservative Christians.

Well it's your right to feel that way about conservative Christians altho I think would be kind of hypocritical to then criticize people who feel the same about Muslims.

Though I didn't just say 'Christians' the way that many say 'Muslims'.

I wouldn't want to live in Saudi Arabia for example.

I am quite happy to continue to criticise people who spread their hate against Muslims in general based on (often incorrect) observations of a small number ultra conservatives or fundamentalists.

Is it racist to say you don't want conservative muslims(ones that believe apostasy or criticizing their religion is punishable by death) in your country?

So, 19 out of 20 are sane and rational. However 1 out of 20 have a serious tick on their shoulder?

Well, about one in 100 Americans is incarcerated, so we know that some substantial number - about 3 million Americans - have some sort of chip on their shoulder. The actual means in which they are a threat to the public varies from serial killers, rapists, drunk drivers(substance abusers) all the way down to thieves and muggers. A good deal of those that are not violent criminals, but even they pose threats to the general public welfare in the form of theft, fraud, arson and other indirect crimes(or they wouldnt be in jail). But still, theft is definitely a chip on the shoulder, and quite capable of causing untold misery to people.

Its harder to pin down how many are free and and have criminal records though, and of course, only some of these would be a recurring threat to the public. But someone can reoffend so we have to count those. And of course, there is a sizable population that has committed crimes and got away with it. Lots of fraudsters, date rapists and assaults.

So we can probably safely say that twice as many people have prior records or past deeds which place them as a threat to public safety. So thats 2 out of 100 Americans.

Next we have to consider the criminals in waiting. A certain portion of the population will commit violent crimes in the future. I wont be so bold as to say crime is going up, so lets say its not going down either. That means potential criminals equal existing populations, but that a big portion of those are repeat offenders. Its a mess to figure out, so lets just say that the crime rates remain the same.

Another 1/100 then. Once you add this to the incarcerated adults plus previously sentenced people, you get a rough total of 1/25 Americans.

Since you've quoted no statistics, I'm still more firmly attached to the real world than you are. Aside, good ol iamnotaparkeet, what on earth makes you think that after a population boom followed by the normal birthrate reduction that occurs along with recent industrialization (and widdening access to family planning) that somehow Muslims will start reproducing in record numbers again?

A more detailed breakdown of current Muslim statistics for Europe:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion ... aphics.asp

Below I fixed your original post, by the way.

+1

It's great to see that Hanotaux has admitted that she is a troll hell-bent on destroying reasonable discussions (not that this thread is at all a resonable discussion - it's polarized between fact-blind demagogues who keep spewing the "Eurabia" nonsense and other people who actually know the real demographic trends) and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

Figuratively,

Dear UK,
Installing my own law system here for civil disputes, ok? Actually a few of us will also campaign for full Sharia law, and if anyone complains, guess what? They're racist and don't understand multiculturalism.
نشكركم على حسن تعاونكم معنا
Mr Orthodox British Muslim

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 749183.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7234870.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7232661.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ourts.html

Sure, people can campaign for full Sharia law. Maybe we'll have stonings live on pay-per-view.

It might just lower the crime rate..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/19/saudi-arabia-judge-paralyse-convict

I think the arch-bishop might have a point. Give them a little something to make them feel that their culture is legitimate and that their way of life is respected. Strictly in financial and civil matters of course, and issue involving any kind of violence has to be settled in a public court.

The slippery slope is really the only argument I can see anyone opposing this making.

Because such family planning is against their religion. Abortion is evil in their eyes, much like it is with Catholics. However Catholics today tend to be more liberal and accepting. So far as I know the Inquisition of the Spaniards died a while ago, so it is not as if such things are enforced. There may be more liberal Muslims who don't care about the Koran as much, but the ones which do are the ones which will adhere to it more: those would be the ones who subscribe to the death penalty for any Muslims who convert to being 'infidels' and they'd be the ones who would be more apt to become "shahids" (that is, their form of Martyr whereby they die in order to give glory while they take out as many infidels as possible along with them) and these would be more likely to follow the rules regarding the laws of being fruitful, multiplying, filling the Earth.

Honestly, I am more worried about those anti-science, anti-truth, socially stagnant, and dogmatically totalitarian Christians. There are so many more of them, and they already hold great political power. Also, they are in favor of large families, and opposed to birth control methods such as birth control, and their dogmas are so strong that they tend to be resistant to any attempts to educate them or deprogram them. Because of this, I think we need to stop worrying about Muslims, and instead impose a totalitarian state to cure these people with high speed pieces of lead.

(Note: I am totally joking.)

Look, here's my stance: We don't think the way I expressed earlier about Christians, even though many of them are as corrupt as the Muslims. Why then pick out Islam as the faith to attack so viciously? If we have such faith that conservative Christianity and theonomy are not going to be threats to civilization, then why hold to Islam with such horrible fear? My belief on the matter is that so long as we don't have people trying to demonize Muslims on every corner, then we will eventually change their minds. When what a person knows and recognizes as basic to reality seems to conflict their text, then the text backs down. Maybe not instantly, but I think it must happen over time.

No, a secular society presumes that religious answers cannot be public answers because they cannot be arrived at through objective or even sufficiently intersubjective phenomena.

I don't know what you mean by "open-minded", but the issue is that the same claim could perhaps be made by a UFOlogist, and so I distrust this "openness".

The issue isn't just answers but good answers. People will create their own answers if the only other solution is to embrace things that they know/feel deep down to be false. Some people may be so desperate as to accept anything, but a lot will not demonize those they love for the packaged answers of a text. They would rather become "spiritual".