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If marijuana's illegal, why isn't milk?

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Should milk be outlawed?
Yes 36%  36%  [ 13 ]
No 64%  64%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 36

makuranososhi
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29 Aug 2009, 9:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Shiggily wrote:

Sometimes I don't get what I want so that other people can have what they want. It can be a problem, but the basic concept is not a bad system. You just need to find balance. Cigars and scotch are nice indulgences, but I don't need them. I negotiate for wants. I go to battle for needs.


Speak for yourself. My wants are my needs. I want what I need and I need what I want. And inconsequential things like Laws make no difference to me in that department.

ruveyn


*blinkity*

Ruveyn, we find ourselves in curious agreement here. I think the end may be nigh. *chuckle*

Shiggily, you seem to believe that your needs and wants are those of all others - they are not.


M.


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29 Aug 2009, 9:52 pm

Actually M, there's the basic needs from the pyramid of Maslow which i think most of us can relate (food, affection, shelter, etc.).

And just for the sake of discussion:

"A need is something that is necessary for humans to live a healthy life. Needs are distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a clear negative outcome, such as dysfunction or death." From wikipedia about needs.

And wants : "Wants are often distinguished from needs. A need is something that is necessary for survival (such as food and shelter), whereas a want is simply something that a person would like to have. Some economists have rejected this distinction and maintain that all of these are simply wants, with varying levels of importance. By this viewpoint, wants and needs can be understood as examples of the overall concept of demand."

Seeing as Ruveyn is quite the Locke and Smith adept, i wager the second part of the "wants" suits him better.



codarac
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30 Aug 2009, 5:29 am

Why is it illegal to have sex with a corpse? A corpse cannot possibly object, so what business is it of anyone else's?

Why is it that someone can be held criminally responsible at the age of 10 but they cannot consent to sex at that age?

Why is it socially acceptable to put food in your mouth in public but unacceptable to expel it out of the other end in public?

What right does anyone have to impose these arbitrary distinctions in the name of so-called civilized society? As you can see, they simply do not hold up to cold mathematical analysis. Let us get rid of them all. Then we shall surely be free!



ruveyn
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30 Aug 2009, 6:34 am

phil777 wrote:

"A need is something that is necessary for humans to live a healthy life. Needs are distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a clear negative outcome, such as dysfunction or death." From wikipedia about needs.



Define "healthy". That is not an objective hard-fast term.

ruveyn



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30 Aug 2009, 12:20 pm

Hrmph, even wiki fails me on this but here goes nothing :

"Overall health is achieved through a combination of physical, mental, emotional, and social well-being, which, together is commonly referred to as the Health Triangle.

In any event, i doubt i'd have the space to list everything pertaining to health that is listed in the wiki, but if you're ever interested, there's a rather general explanation of most aspects of health on the wiki page.



makuranososhi
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30 Aug 2009, 5:26 pm

phil777 wrote:
Actually M, there's the basic needs from the pyramid of Maslow which i think most of us can relate (food, affection, shelter, etc.).

And just for the sake of discussion:

"A need is something that is necessary for humans to live a healthy life. Needs are distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a clear negative outcome, such as dysfunction or death." From wikipedia about needs.

And wants : "Wants are often distinguished from needs. A need is something that is necessary for survival (such as food and shelter), whereas a want is simply something that a person would like to have. Some economists have rejected this distinction and maintain that all of these are simply wants, with varying levels of importance. By this viewpoint, wants and needs can be understood as examples of the overall concept of demand."

Seeing as Ruveyn is quite the Locke and Smith adept, i wager the second part of the "wants" suits him better.


Ok - so where does medication fall under Maslow's pyramid? There are those who need them to function, to survive - yet they are not universal. So the one-size-fits-all approach is a methodology of convenience, not reality.


M.


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30 Aug 2009, 5:37 pm

If milk is dangerous and should be illegal does that make you certifiably profoundly ret*d for posting this?



techstepgenr8tion
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30 Aug 2009, 6:08 pm

DirkWillems wrote:
If milk is dangerous and should be illegal does that make you certifiably profoundly ret*d for posting this?


Ahh, that's just the greatness of what passes as 'intellectualism' these days.

Don't let it surprise you either if a bunch of PhD students are musing over the question of 'If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it will it make a sound'? You could tell them 'Well, sound is nothing more than disturbances in air and thus to not make a sound the tree couldn't fall' but - that's just mean, you'd be raining on their solipsism and killing their otherwise enjoyable wine and cheese tasting party ;).



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30 Aug 2009, 11:30 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

Shiggily, you seem to believe that your needs and wants are those of all others - they are not.


M.


I don't. I just realize that my needs and wants are often in contradiction with the needs and wants of others. Sometimes I will have to sacrifice my needs and wants, sometimes I won't. I am all for fulfilling the needs of people who might medically benefit from prescription marijuana, even if that means sacrificing some of my wants/needs. But for an entire society to sacrifice wants/needs so that a handful can have anything that they want? Doesn't quite make sense.


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Shiggily
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30 Aug 2009, 11:35 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Actually M, there's the basic needs from the pyramid of Maslow which i think most of us can relate (food, affection, shelter, etc.).

And just for the sake of discussion:

"A need is something that is necessary for humans to live a healthy life. Needs are distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a clear negative outcome, such as dysfunction or death." From wikipedia about needs.

And wants : "Wants are often distinguished from needs. A need is something that is necessary for survival (such as food and shelter), whereas a want is simply something that a person would like to have. Some economists have rejected this distinction and maintain that all of these are simply wants, with varying levels of importance. By this viewpoint, wants and needs can be understood as examples of the overall concept of demand."

Seeing as Ruveyn is quite the Locke and Smith adept, i wager the second part of the "wants" suits him better.


Ok - so where does medication fall under Maslow's pyramid? There are those who need them to function, to survive - yet they are not universal. So the one-size-fits-all approach is a methodology of convenience, not reality.


M.


usually they are prescribed medications if in their individual case the benefits outweigh the negative impact of not taking it. I don't agree with the one-size-fits-all approach. That is why I advocate allowing individual cases to be decided on between a patient and a Dr. You can't argue that because you can make good decisions, that it means all people can make good decisions. You can only lay down basic rules that fit for a majority and beyond that weigh each case individually.


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30 Aug 2009, 11:37 pm

Shiggily wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:

Shiggily, you seem to believe that your needs and wants are those of all others - they are not.


M.


I don't. I just realize that my needs and wants are often in contradiction with the needs and wants of others. Sometimes I will have to sacrifice my needs and wants, sometimes I won't. I am all for fulfilling the needs of people who might medically benefit from prescription marijuana, even if that means sacrificing some of my wants/needs. But for an entire society to sacrifice wants/needs so that a handful can have anything that they want? Doesn't quite make sense.


But it's not the use of marijuana that's screwing up society, its the fanatic pursuit of anybody who wants to use it for their own private pleasure. The whole legal structure to prevent its use is jacking up the price and sending basically innocuous people to expensive prison servitude to no real purpose whatsoever except to make drug lords rich and satisfy the idiotic sense of retribution of sadistic idiots.



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30 Aug 2009, 11:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DirkWillems wrote:
If milk is dangerous and should be illegal does that make you certifiably profoundly ret*d for posting this?


Ahh, that's just the greatness of what passes as 'intellectualism' these days.

Don't let it surprise you either if a bunch of PhD students are musing over the question of 'If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it will it make a sound'? You could tell them 'Well, sound is nothing more than disturbances in air and thus to not make a sound the tree couldn't fall' but - that's just mean, you'd be raining on their solipsism and killing their otherwise enjoyable wine and cheese tasting party ;).


it would depend on how you are defining sound. There are the waves that will be made when a tree falls no matter what. And there is the concept of sound that is in reality nothing more that the translation of the waves within a organism's brain. That would depend on their being someone there to translate the waves to the perceptions.


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Shiggily
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30 Aug 2009, 11:39 pm

Sand wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:

Shiggily, you seem to believe that your needs and wants are those of all others - they are not.


M.


I don't. I just realize that my needs and wants are often in contradiction with the needs and wants of others. Sometimes I will have to sacrifice my needs and wants, sometimes I won't. I am all for fulfilling the needs of people who might medically benefit from prescription marijuana, even if that means sacrificing some of my wants/needs. But for an entire society to sacrifice wants/needs so that a handful can have anything that they want? Doesn't quite make sense.


But it's not the use of marijuana that's screwing up society, its the fanatic pursuit of anybody who wants to use it for their own private pleasure. The whole legal structure to prevent its use is jacking up the price and sending basically innocuous people to expensive prison servitude to no real purpose whatsoever except to make drug lords rich and satisfy the idiotic sense of retribution of sadistic idiots.


that is like saying money isn't screwing up society or guns are not screwing up society. It is both true and fallacious at the same time.


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30 Aug 2009, 11:39 pm

Shiggily wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DirkWillems wrote:
If milk is dangerous and should be illegal does that make you certifiably profoundly ret*d for posting this?


Ahh, that's just the greatness of what passes as 'intellectualism' these days.

Don't let it surprise you either if a bunch of PhD students are musing over the question of 'If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it will it make a sound'? You could tell them 'Well, sound is nothing more than disturbances in air and thus to not make a sound the tree couldn't fall' but - that's just mean, you'd be raining on their solipsism and killing their otherwise enjoyable wine and cheese tasting party ;).


it would depend on how you are defining sound. There are the waves that will be made when a tree falls no matter what. And there is the concept of sound that is in reality nothing more that the translation of the waves within a organism's brain. That would depend on their being someone there to translate the waves to the perceptions.


Bugs, birds, snakes and turtles have ears also.



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30 Aug 2009, 11:50 pm

Sand wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
DirkWillems wrote:
If milk is dangerous and should be illegal does that make you certifiably profoundly ret*d for posting this?


Ahh, that's just the greatness of what passes as 'intellectualism' these days.

Don't let it surprise you either if a bunch of PhD students are musing over the question of 'If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it will it make a sound'? You could tell them 'Well, sound is nothing more than disturbances in air and thus to not make a sound the tree couldn't fall' but - that's just mean, you'd be raining on their solipsism and killing their otherwise enjoyable wine and cheese tasting party ;).


it would depend on how you are defining sound. There are the waves that will be made when a tree falls no matter what. And there is the concept of sound that is in reality nothing more that the translation of the waves within a organism's brain. That would depend on their being someone there to translate the waves to the perceptions.


Bugs, birds, snakes and turtles have ears also.


that is why I put organism and not person


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techstepgenr8tion
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30 Aug 2009, 11:51 pm

Shiggily wrote:
it would depend on how you are defining sound. There are the waves that will be made when a tree falls no matter what. And there is the concept of sound that is in reality nothing more that the translation of the waves within a organism's brain. That would depend on their being someone there to translate the waves to the perceptions.


That's pretty easily answered - if someone is there to hear it, its the same waves that are present if someone is not there to hear it. Physical reality 'is' with or without our presence. Sadly I knew the answer to that back in grade school when I had my mind blown open by the possibility that people saw it as an intelligent question.